You get what you give – but different

Some things about mentality and about morality changed drastically, every men changed in some way, some of us more, other less. Some people welcomed that change in their thoughts and see whole new situation as some chance to do things that could not do in normal times, not without punishment from system.


Most of the people accept some things over the time almost without noticing it, so for example you wake up one day with thoughts that to steal things has become almost normal, useful, it becomes a „must do“ thing.

Even with some newly „accepted“ behavior, people still had some judgment about what is bad and what is OK. It was distorted, but it still was there.

Easiest way to explain it would be to say that almost everyone did things that normal people in normal times could not accept as a normal behavior, but comparing to some other people actions it was nothing. It was like the scale of what is good or bad was moved all together for everyone. Facing all the killing and misery smoking marijuana became accepted by everyone. Human look for an escape and alcohol was too precious.

But one thing is for sure, whenever i hear these days somebody says: “I will not do that if SHTF“ or „I ll do only that if SHTF“ whenever i hear that i feel sick. Wait and see…

Truth is: You never know how far you are going to go with some things in order to survive, there is no chance to know that before SHTF, everything else is only talking and discussing in front of PC, in nice and warm room, safe, not hungry or thirsty and not under fire or chance of losing life or that loved ones get murdered anytime.

And to make things clear, I am not approving some things that i wrote about, i am not advocating some actions, everyone has to find the line and choose his own „good or bad“ actions. I just share what happened and how I experienced it.

One thing is to suggest what kind of medicines you must have in storage, but on some other things there is no advice, it is all on you. It is a mindset thing and no equipment can help.

Most of the people, great majority of people is ready to say instantly: „I am good man, and i ll do only good things when SHTF“.

Truth is, when SHTF, lot of that good and nice people forget on that „strong decisions“, mostly after first few close gunshots or explosions, or after finding out that local food store is gone, just like any other store.

I like most of you (I guess) want to believe in fact that some kind of punishment gonna „catch“ all people who did or who gonna do bad things. So here is what might have caught up with one guy.

Before SHTF that man was a small thief, pickpocket guy who steals wallets, and do some small cons to naive people at market, smuggling some things, he was not even big criminal, actually he was nobody. When SHTF he „ recognized“ his chance and in short time he is managed from nobody to become powerful man with group of some 200 armed man. He was something like strong charismatic leader, kind of man who would know how to organise small groups of people from lowest aspects of life, he was like god to them.

In some time he was in control of some vital functions, like organising of food coming in that area, trough some convoys. In that time you could be rich with few bags of flour, so imagine amount of power and control if you get all from convoys of trucks with flour.

When everything ended he was a rich and powerful man, man with his own enterprise, and his own people everywhere. He did not leave area when everything ended, he was even more powerful. He become active in public life, some people would have given everything to be close to him. Media even call him philanthropist, helping poor, giving contributions to orphanages, or giving donations to rebuilding schools.

People whispered in cafés about his famous parties which lasted for days and nights, womens, drugs. Powerful and untouchable man.

And then one morning maid found him hanging from some window knob, naked, with his swollen blue toungue out, and his own dirt beneath him. Rumor was that he had nightmares for years, nobody knows for sure.

But i remember story from some other time when baby food for new born babies was very hard to find, and even when you find it to trade then trader could ask lot of things for that, well in that time he just kept baby food from aid and sell it for astronomical amounts, and even he mix that food with some things when it becomes very rare, things not good for babies to make it more, and then sell it to people.

I like to think there is a reason why he died like that, alone naked and dirty. So keep in mind even if scale or level of what is ok and what not shifts it still makes sense to only do what you have to do. Accept the new reality quickly, adapt to it and do what you have to do to survive.

People easily get seduced by the dark side and many will fall for it.

Survival with a guitar

He lived alone, had a job as salesman, did not have any knowledge about shooting, military or anything connected to survival or similar things. His knowledge was more about singing and playing guitar, he was nothing like famous, but pretty known with his group, playing at local weddings, or local festivals.

He missed few chances to go out at the beginning of everything, some his relatives from America called him few days prior everything started and offer him money and help to get out, but he just thought this mess is temporary thing.

Even when people started to get killed on daily basis he still thought It is going to stop very soon, it didnt. They came for him in the middle of the night, like many others, at that time they just doing the sweep, so that means a gang searches a street or several houses in an area, in order to mobilize you for fight for them or in other case to kill you or imprisoned you (robbing is included of course).


He was not material for fighter, he looked more as shy girl then as a grown up man, passing out even on mention of blood. So they just imprisoned him together with bunch of other people. Many years later he told me that hardest thing for him was not to suffer some occasional beatings and lack of food or water. Worst thing was feeling of desperation and sometimes feeling that all is only dream. A bad dream, like a nightmare. His psychological suffering was bigger than his physical suffering.

In one occasion he mention to them that he is good with guitar playing. From that day he become something like their member, he played for them while they drink and beat and tortured other folks.

It was hard for him to focus, while other people suffered but he played encouraging songs that made some men beat others in frenzy. Men adapt and get used to their surroundings.

He told me that he was not in that time neither prisoner neither their member, he was something like their clown, man who amused them, playing and singing songs on demand, not sure is somebody of them going to shoot him in head because bad song, or give him gold chain for a good song. But point is that he was under some kind of protection. He was valuable because there were few sources of entertainment.

Other imprisoned folks hated him, and were scared of him in same time, because he was more popular than they were. After few months he took chance with some foreign news reporters crew and run away, carrying big camera, blue helmet and blue body armor on numerous check points.

I lost contact with him for years, then I found him on some discussion about war and music on web. He is working as a room cleaner, in country far away. I started some discussion with him about prepping and survival and found out that he is still do not know anything about fighting, shooting or survival.

But he told me that he is playing guitar every day, alone in his room, so I guess he is now much better with that.

I think about him sometimes trying to figure out is he a good or bad man. Just a man making the best out of his situation probably. We were all grey and did what we had to do. Sometimes ugly things. But keep in mind simple extra skills give you extra value that might save your life.

There will be more about survival entertainment soon. What extra skills outside of survival do you have or learn?

Old cans and minefields… how to control enemy movement

People used everything they could for their protection, from most primitive things like throwing rocks to more sophisticated kind of traps made with explosives, usually those kind of traps required knowledge so they were rare. People invented some traps or something like false traps, everything was allowed in order to keep yourself and your group safer.

Home Security Mines

Armies used mines of course, there were whole areas covered with mine fields, some urban areas also were covered with all different kind explosive things, booby traps.

In some areas where soldiers had open terrain in front of them, or terrain with bush, and if they planted mines there, they usually throw all kind of empty cans, like food cans or anything similar. As we understanded at that time they used that in order to confuse enemy if they coming during the night trough the mine field with mine detectors.

So basically if man going with those mine detectors trough bushes during the night and trying to discover mines digged in ground he is going to be confused with lots of false readings from all of the cans and metal garbage, so he is not going to pay good attention after some time.

Pretty soon lots of folks started to throw cans in areas that supposed to be dangerous, or hard to watch all the night.

Sounds stupid and primitive, but in most of the situation it is worked.

Whenewer during the night i was stuck in some area that suspiciously was covered with lot of empty cans, or other small metal garbage usually i tried to find another way, even i was sure in 90 % of situations it was only empty cans.

I would just turn back beliving that somebody set up a trap. When it comes to life or death even very small percentages count.

It was just so basic opinion in that time that in every mine field you gonna find lot of old cans to confuse mine detectors that we all belived in that.

In a SHTF scenario some signs of danger will become common, use them to your advantage.

What are your plans for home defense?

Bad people in control

I wonder how bad people are usually in control and if its possible to change that. Criminal types are ruthless and tend to be
charismatic. I think of them as sales people.

It seems that in short time they’d be fragmented due to infighting and those who can work together would grow stronger. This doesn’t seem to happen though. Are most people bad, selfish, weak minded, need a leader, duplicitous, fearful or otherwise? How do the gangs work together when good people can’t?

Any insight into politics or human nature which allow this is greatly appreciated. Also you mentioned your neighbors got along just enough but there was little trust or cooperation. Any way to change this?

Currently many in the USA are catty, petty and this is rampant in
families. We don’t get along. Someone is always trying to get a deal
or a family member is using others. My own family doesn’t get along
although in a SHTF they might come together but who’s the boss? And
what to do with the lazy, unskilled members? ATM, there is no

I’m in the USA and there is much pent up anger here. In shtf, I think
this anger will add much violence to an already awful situation.

Thanks for all your posts, this info is timely and very rare.



Hello and welcome

First i do not think some things can be changed, yes in every specific situation, collapse, SHTF event i believe worst kind of people will be in charge, or try very hard to be in charge.

Yes, i think our society and way of living make us weak,most of us. When SHTF weak people vanish or connect to group with strong leader, to survive alone bad or good it is way to hard, problem is in fact that in desperate situations great number of people turns from good to bad.

You see in desperate situation man have tendency to gradually loose his morale, most of the people. It is easy to discuss this things in normal times and say “i ll stick to my decisions” but when is come to your life or life of your family member good man probably will do some bad things.
When you describing situation in your country it is like you are describing situation in my country, here is also everything going down, family values, respect, political situation crime and you can also feel anger here, like everything going to blow That is another reason why i believe things going to be bad again.
In hard times there is no democracy, if he do not obey, he is not a member and leader should be man who is capable to make decisions in tough time, it is not so hard to shoot you know, it is hard to make some decisions in hard situations.
I strongly believe that good cooperation between people in collapse can be made only in rural communities, very small places, where people know each other very well, where people are not so adapted on some things that make life in modern city.
And what to do with lazy unskilled member? Nobody was lazy in my time, if he is lazy he do not eat.
In towns everything come to smaller groups like families.In my case cooperation between street members was more based on fear then trust.

Good Night… for Raiders

Usually they were coming during the night, but late (or very early) around 3 or 4 in the morning. They would not coming in silence, always with shooting, cursing and yelling, sometimes they would just throw couple of hand grenades in front of the house, to kinda shock you. Even some tough and good prepared guys would just run away if they had a chance.

SHTF Raiders

It takes some guts and serious weapon to stand up to 10,15 or 20 armed guys, mostly drunk, or high. Sometimes if people did not resist everything ends with few punches, broken rib, or similar. They could just took what is interesting for them and leave, on the other hand they could rape,kill,torture. If you choose to resist, be sure that you can resist to them, or just be sure to kill yourself before they get you alive. People just were not sure what to do, to resist and take chance or to surrender and take chance.

One incident I can remember

I will call him Dan, because his security. His father was goldsmith, quite famous in town. Two of them just waited in the city and looked how everything going to hell with first months of chaos. Father could not survive all changes, lack of medical care and every day uncertainty just finished him and his already sick heart.

Dan buried him with 2 neighbors one night in near graveyard, while city was in flames and battles raged over the reasons that nobody actually cared as soon as TV and TV news were gone with propaganda stories. They had some amount of gold in house, pretty much gold.

They came for Dan at 3 in the morning, did not ask anything, they just search the house in details, beat him and took him to their prison. They ruled in that part of town, prison was not like real prison, it was a basement in local mall.

After 5 th day of regular beating their leader came and said to him: you will take us to the gold.

And he took them, he and two gang members spent 2 hours on rain in the middle of the night, while Dan was trying to remember where he is buried his father s gold in graveyard close to house.

After 2 hours he just use the moment and hit the gang member with shovel in the head, other one was sleeping in house, he took him too, and run away.

I do not know what ways and connections he used then, but after 2 months in Croatia, he ends up in Germany. War ended, I did not hear too much about him, except that he is in Germany, and not doing so good, and that he is keep telling that he is never coming back here.

One day I heard that he is back.

I met him in one cafee close to his old house, we had some coffee, he did not want to speak too much about old times. I ask him why did you come back here? His answer was: I remember where I buried my father s gold.

He also told me :

“Right after my father s death i took all his gold, put it in jars and buried in graveyard. I did not use any map or anything like that, but I was perfectly aware where I was buried that, I memorize it very good.

After they put me in that prison, after they beat me, humiliate me, they took me to graveyard because I told them I was buried gold there. Standing in that graveyard, in night, with two of them with their rifles just erase everything from my head, I was desperately trying to remember where I was buried those jars, but nothing; my head was empty, blank page. I knew they going to shot me if I do not find it, and maybe even if I find it they shot me.

So I was digging like crazy, and suddenly i decide to hit him with shovel, I think it was not voluntary at all, something just woke up in me, like it was not me hitting him.

After I get to Germany I still could not remember where I buried that jars, so after few years I just stop thinking on that. And then few days ago I dreamed everything, like in fast forward motion, my father s death, killings, all atrocities, my prison, beatings, and I also dream about correct place of my jars, so I came here again

You know I think I was lucky because when they came in my house in 3 in morning they did not ask me anything, they just beat me and took me to prison, if they asked me the about gold, I am sure that I would tell them, I was scared to death, and if I told them then maybe after the took it they would kill me at the place.”

He did not want to talk any more, so I leave. I heard later that he suddenly “got rich” somewhere, and that he is doing fine now.

At that night when Dan was digging trough graveyard while two gang members were watching him, he was 17 years old.