Faith and religion during my fight for survival
I had many questions and comments about faith, religion and God. I did not answer many of them with too much details just because usually this would started discussions without too much connection to survival, but with lots of hate and anger.
Today I want to talk a bit about this.
Of course faith and religion played big part of survival when SHTF, but maybe not like most of the people would guess.
One of the questions that I had few times is „did the folks who had faith cope better with everyday problems?“ Answer is probably „yes, most of them“.
But I also must say that lots of people who had lots of faith and were good folks died with terrible deaths too.
I knew more than one man, some whole families who died, or lost family members simply because they had attitude „it is gonna be what God wants it to be, and we can not do too much“.
I always prefered attitude that „ I ll do whatever I could and rest is not in my hands anyway“.
Just like everything in normal life and especially in survival situations you have to put effort in to make it. In survival it is not about a promotion or more money, it is about seeing one more sunset or making sure your kids have chance to grow up and see adulthood.
I know guy who was real warrior and tough dude, he didnt care too much about rules, what is right and what is wrong. So you can imagine that he did whatever he wanted to do in that time, including some very bad stuff.
He survived and later I heard that he completely devoted his life to religion. I see him from time to time, standing in front of the local center, with religious literature in hands, trying to talk with folks.
He looks 20 years older then he really is. Small guy talking about salvation.
His tattoos on fingers look strange compared with literature that he holds with those same fingers. I talked with him, he said that every night people who he „sent“ to other world visit him, and he talks with them. Every night.
He said that he accepts that as a part of punishment, adding that he is aware that bigger part of punishment is waiting for him on „other side“.
You need to have faith in something when SHTF. It does not matter what religion or what you believe in, it can be you. You will experience situations where you have to make very hard choices and others where you experience things that are hard to imagine. Without some believe it would be very hard, and simply you risk to turn yourself into animal.
One thing is for sure: be ready to pay for whatever you did, sooner or later. I tried to stay on right „side“ and to do good only.
But you ll see that doing only good when SHTF and survive is impossible, so you gonna be forced to to some things that are wrong, and that you do not like.
And be prepared to pay for that, maybe day after, or maybe 20 years after. But those demons gonna find you.
Groups of people during survival situation and religion
In the beginning days religion had important role in creation of groups. Religion also had strong impact on how groups reacted and what kind of things they did.
But here is few very important things to be aware of. To have group strongly based on religion did not always mean that they were good guys.
Actually very often I saw and had „bussines“ with different kind of groups who called themselves „strong believers“ and still they were doing very bad things, just in the name of God.
So you could easily see guy who considered himself strong religious man, who killed children.
I am talking here about all kinds of religion. I saw all kinds of examples. Do not (always) mix good things and religion. In normal times it means the same maybe, but when SHTF things gets twisted and some groups gonna use religion to justify attrocities they commit.
Of course I saw also examples of religious guys who died trying to save someone, because they tried to do what is right.
Aftermath and religion
As I said many times, people cope with bad things from the past in many ways.
And I must say here that I know lot of people who find their peace in religion. Most of them who I know from SHTF and 20 years before who become really religious guys are real believers, and kind of people that you can call in short „good people“.
Another guy who has become involved in religion based center for addiction recovery told me that as more as he work with worst kind of addicts, he is becoming more free from listening to screams from the past every night.
I am quite sure that he was reason for some of those screams that he is still hearing. Simply on one or other way you gonna have to pay price for what you did.
In short I think religion can be very helpful if it is not twisted. It can be like set of personal values guide someone and help to see light when all world around has turned to darkness.
What role does religion play for you when you think about coming collapse?
Do to others as you would have them do to you and God helps those who help themselves both come to mind. The first is from the Bible and the 2nd from ancient Greece. If you just go by the first one you should come out okay. Of course there is the an eye for an eye quote also.
I think the main thing is to be deeply rooted in what you believe and how you treat others and not to compromise yourself during a SHTF scenario.
This also comes to mind: Jesus speaking about the rapture in Luke 17:
30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”  [Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left]
In the true Christian’s mind, it’s all about survival in the afterlife. As it says in Luke 12: 4 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
As always Selco you are stand up guy . I know you must have been living in Hell and to come through that without your own sets of demons is quite remarkable . America is a very fearful nation and to quote Aristotle “Fear is the pain in anticipation of evil “. I would hope that people will return to their faiths to get through this.
sooner or later we all will die, so i think it is best to do what you think is right, and be ready to die, if it comes to that. I believe it is a Biblical principle to prepare, trust, and sustain life. We are warned that a time of big tribulation will come, so we shouldn’t be surprised, and some will survive. We also have suggestion to put on the whole armor of God, for protection ,which is righteousness, truth, salvation, but the only weapon in that is the Word as a sword. Ten commandments also is about relationships, both religious and human. That’s all we have, so I think people who have memorized scriptures will be encouraged in repeating them, but there is no guarantee it will save your life. As you said before, we will only know who we are and what we are willing to do when the SHTF. Religion is superfiicial and different from spiritual, and a crutch to lean on. I think it will be the spiritual that will determine the final acts. And survival is an animal instinct that will make us fight back no matter what. I hope I will never know what that means or face the demons within me.
Thanks for this important aspect of survival Selco! I think it is a very important topic for everyone to think about and reach their own conclusions about, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for anyone to tell anyone else what they “should” believe in.
From my perspective, a great many of the SHTF situations around the world have been rooted in religious differences. Protestant-Catholic, Muslim-Christian, Sunni-Shi’ite, Hindu-Muslim, Jewish-Muslim, etc., etc. Just as you mentioned in your essay.
There is only one destination, but there are many paths. My path is just as good as anyone else’s, even if a lot of people would say my path is “sacrilegious.”
I think the underlying issue is how rigid the “casings” are around any individual’s ideas. If they have a “hardening of the categories” then it doesn’t matter what the content of the categories is, those ideas are going to be “My way or the highway.” People with looser categories are much easier to get along with when there are different ideas around.
I try to build my own preventive-prepper community with looser category people, no matter what the ideas are they have in their categories.
Excellent topic! I have multiple thoughts on this subject. First of all, I am a devout Roman Catholic. Christianity has guided my actions (perhaps not all the time) throughout my life. My faith was the single strongest motivation and inspiration during a 30 year career in the military, including hazardous duty as a paratrooper and combat as an infantryman. It would be naive to believe that everyone can pray their way out of every bad situation. I was fortunate, actually blessed, to have lived through multiple harrowing situations. My prayers were certainly answered. On the other hand, I also subscribe to the saying “God helps those that help themselves”. I am reminded of the original Poseidon Adventure movie. The old priest gathers has a following of people that are waiting and praying for someone to rescue them. The young priest (Gene Hackman) takes the attitude that they must fight their way out. I don’t want to get too deeply into the lethal actions discussion. I will say that I believe the guy who sees the faces of those he slayed. I don’t believe he is conversing with them.
Circumstances change, but principles don’t. Killing in defense of self or family is justifiable, murder is not. Rape is rape, and there is no circumstance that could ever justify that action. Theft may feel (or be) justifiable in SHTF circumstances, but ultimately will still have to be explained on your Day of Reckoning so decide carefully.
A person can do what must be done without totally abandoning principles, and remain a good person.
I don’t believe in religion because it is man made . A true Christian isn’t religious ..
In the true Christian’s mind, it’s all about survival in the afterlife. As Jesus says in Luke “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.”
My comments may not be very popular here.
In USA we have a kind of people we call “born again Christian”. In my opinion these are people who lived their first 30 years or so of their life without morals. They reach a point where they begin to feel terrible about themselves and become EXTREMELY religious. It is my opinion that these people feel terrible because they know they are going to Hell. They spend the rest of their lives trying to avoid Hell and trying to make up and make amends for their bad lives.
This is only my opinion. No man can know who is or is not going to Hell. Only God can know this. So I do not know this for certain. I admit this.
Selco’s story about the guy who became very religious after SHTF and spends his time handing out religious papers on sidewalks reminds me of the American “born again Christian”.
I do not know the religion of Selco and I do not know the religion of the man in Selco’s story and I do not believe it matters what religion. It is a common story in ALL RELIGIONS. Those that have no use for religion in their young lives become old one day and suddenly become extreme religious believers. If they are Jewish or Sunni or Shia or Druze or Dervish or Hindu or Catholic or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Orthodox or Coptic. Makes no difference. God is in all of us when we are born. When we live our lives in a bad way then we separate ourselves from God and we no longer have the special protection God gives each of us…that’s when we begin to have mental problems. Some become insane when this happens and then die from drugs or suicide or some other form of excess debauchery. Some try to fix themselves and become extremely religious trying to repair the damage they did to themselves.
Why or when people find Jesus doesn’t matter to him. If it matters to us why others accept him there are a couple verses that address that; Do not judge others & First remove the log from our eye before trying to remove the splinter in our neighbors… treat others as we want to be treated. Love they neighbor as thyself, (everyone is our neighbor)..
We all have doubts about whether we are going to heaven or hell.
There are some clear expectations the Lord has of us and there are things we must do or we can be certain we shall not enter the gates of heaven. As a paraplegic of over 30 years I’ve learned to do the few things I can than worry about the few I can’t.
What we must do!
1. Admit your need (I am a Sinner)
2. Be willing to turn from Sin (Repent)
3. Believe that Jesus Christ Died for you (On the Cross)
4. Through Prayer, ask forgiveness and then receive Jesus as Personal Lord and Savior,
5. Be Baptized
6. Carry the word forward,
A Suggested Prayer of Commitment
Dear Father God,
I know that I am a Sinner and need Your forgiveness.
I believe that your Son Jesus Christ pied in my place, paying the penalty for all my sins.
I am willing to turn away from my sinful ways and sin.
I now invite Jesus Christ to come into my Heart and let him be my own Personal Savior.
I am willing to follow and obey Jesus Christ, by His word and deed to let Him lead my life!
My Personal Decision:
On the ____ Day of _____________, 20___, I __________________________ Received Jesus Christ as my Personal Savior.
And then you need to be baptized. (If baptized as a child great, you had a bath) , but that’s not what the Bible says. It says lest ye be born again, you shall not see kingdom of heaven.
So as Jesus did with John the baptist He was baptized and that’s when Jesus openly showed that He was giving His life to His Heavenly Father. Jesus was born through Mary, but then Born Again through baptism.
2. Get in the word, Read The Bible Daily! (I suggest starting with the four Gospels because that’s where Jesus’s words are and you have the best chance of getting to know Him as a friend)
3. Go to a Good Bible Preaching Church where God’s Word is Preached!
4. Tell others about the decision you made and the effect it has had on your life!
5. Live so that if anyone asks why you are filled with joy you can speak to them with authority. Be open and use discernment. not everyone is ready at the same time, If or when they ask about your joy, then tell them about the Good News and how Jesus Christ saved you!
You may not be ready to stand on street corners with Pamphlets, nor ready to sell your belongings and become a missionary in Mozambique, but you can let the light of the Lord shine through you and live your life so as to not shame Christ. My best advice is to live in such a way that others want what you have.
,,,,ahh,,the must ‘does’ for something that is already done,without works,,,,just piling on more religiosity ,ie ,,,’I perceive that you are religious(superstitious)…’ sez Paul..
“Jesus was born through Mary, but then Born Again through baptism.”
The Lord Jesus Christ made the water holy, not the other way around. The Father declaring, “This day I have begotten You,” is a manifestation/revelation of the Trinity, the Word/Logos/Son is eternally being begotten of the Father, as the Spirit is eternally proceeding from the Father.
“3. Go to a Good Bible Preaching Church where God’s Word is Preached!”
The “Eastern” Orthodox Church came hundreds of years before a fixed canon of the Bible, not the other way around. Heterodox Christians who talk like this have the Bible out of context (which is why there are thousands of Protestant sects, all trying to return to the purity of Orthodoxy by finding new things in the Bible to disagree on and found a new sect over) of the Church, the Divine Liturgy, the Divine Mysteries, and Holy Tradition. This puts you in the position of trying to find salvation by making a “personal decision for Jesus” rather than participating in the Divine Energies (this is what “grace” really is, not just legalistic good standing) inherent in the one historic and continous Church founded by Him.
Can you say that in English? I do not understand…sounds like you are advertising for eastern orthodox christianity.
John – a true ‘born again Christian’ does not believe that people that are dead visit and talk to them… b/c that is the occult, and a true ‘born again Christian’ does not dabble in witchcraft / medium’s etc…
I appreciate your well stated personal opinions.
I study Christianity, and had a radical interaction with the Living Christ in 2007 after 27 years of living the wrong road… maybe other religions teach that God is in us, from birth, but the Bible does not state that God is in us from Birth, or even at any time until we at the age of reason, accept His son, (speaking as a non denominational Christian, not a Mormon, or Jehovah’s Witness, or Catholic) and surrender our lives and will to His… But without getting too deep on here, I want to plug Selco, and say how APPRECIATIVE I AM, and MANY I know are Thankful for his LIFE, for his WISDOM, and INSIGHT, and DEDICATION to investing his time and resources into instilling SURVIVIAL truths re: bartering, firearms, the carnality and depraved humanity that emerges, etc…
Selco, keep it coming sir… you are adding DEEP Value to countless peoples lives…
I pray that real God have a life changing interaction with you, dear honored sir 🙂
We are born innocent and without sin. Therefore we are born with God in us. It is up to us to drive him away or not to drive him away…not to prove to him we deserve his love.
In the USA we also have another kind of people. Those that have been religious all our lives and then discovered that 90% of what you hear at church is a complete lie and made up.
The bible is not what most of these “churches” teach, instead they teach hatred, intolerance, and fear.
That group of people that finally wake up to the lies that is organized religion walk away from it. My Christ is nothing like the Christ that is worshiped in american christian churches.
That said, there never is justification to kill another human being, only excuses. Whatever excuse you come up with to silence your demons is all that matters. Ask any war veteran, if you can get them to talk about it. Some silence those demons and voices with drink, others use harder stuff. Some look at it as if it was no different than killing a deer to eat. I know a sniper that has killed a large number of people and has no problems because his justification is that for every man he killed he saved 50 lives.
You make a decision, Lie down and die with your religious morals intact, or do whatever it takes to survive. There is no middle ground. Because humanity reverts to savagery very quickly. You either embrace it, avoid it, or be a victim of it.
You started off well and I was in agreement but I respectfully disagree with your final conclusions. “That said, there never is justification to kill another human being, only excuses. ”
There are MANY good justifications that one might be forced to kill another human and they would still be moral actors. I could agree there is never a justification to seek/enjoy/disregard etc killing. But the idea that defending one’s life and the life of innocents is morally equal to someone on a blood rampage is about as illogical and unspiritual as I can imagine.
The defining dynamic of life is to live…not at the expense of others, not as the controller of others but I have a right to life. If you threaten my existence for no good reason–in other words, if I am willing to work with you to help come to another conclusion–but you are not willing to give up your blood lust, I am fairly sure I could kill you and feel not a bit of moral guilt over it.
The physical universe is a violent place. In this universe, the Creator has seen fit to set in motion actions of a scale so large that even solar systems and galaxies can be consumed. To think you have a moral obligation to be more concerned about violence than the Creator makes no sense to me.
Selco’s value is that he is clear thinking enough to know one must do what has to be done to survive, and that there are boundaries to humane action that preclude certain behaviors.
I neither would act like a killing machine nor a pacifist. If you come to me in cooperation so we both can thrive, I will do all I can to help you. If you come to me to take in violence my means of survival, or my life itself, I will do all I can to make sure you leave this world before I do.
Contrary to what you believe, I do not find it more spiritual to “die with your religious morals intact.” In fact, what you have done is to assure there is one less spiritual person in the world and one more “animal.”
There is a Sufi saying that fits this situation perfectly: Do what is appropriate, as it’s appropriate, when it’s appropriate.
Well said, Tim.
Selco, you’re a hell of a good man. I share your belief that one’s religion will guide them, yet, all of us are imperfect, and will do what we think necessary when the chips are down, but will eventually come back to our roots, and try to set things right…
Selco, thanks for bringing these important matters to the table for discussion. Few other places do this and we all need to think about the “what ifs” that could happen. To start with, I do not agree with your opening statement:
“I did not answer many of them with too much details just because usually this would started discussions without too much connection to survival,”
I firmly believe that faith has a very strong connection with survival. As a Christian, I will totally trust in God for His protection and the path to safety. I do agree that He expects us to give our “all” in making it happen.
More people need to know that Heaven speaks guidance to us mortals through privleged souls. Here is one example of help offered for those inclined to listen:
MARY SPEAKS TO THE WORLD:
136. The Coming Economic Collapse
Oct. 14th, 2011
When everything begins, there will be many surprises. Those who were thought to be strong, will fall quickly, while those who seemed to be weak will persevere because of their faith. How will people handle this adversity? First, let me describe what will happen so that those who read my words, can prepare. I will lead them but they must not wait.
The relationships of faith must be made strong. This is the way to survive. People must strengthen their ties to others, the bonds of their faith. When the tragedy first hits, people will be shocked. How could this ever happen? There will be great turmoil and the leaders will be scrambling to come up with answers. But those who have placed themselves in my heart will not give way to useless anxiety. They will have a firmness of heart. They will know my words. This is my promise, “I will provide. I will take care of you”. As a mother says to all of her children in any crisis, “Stay together. Stay close to me. Do not wander. The road is too dangerous.”
The great problems will not be in the beginning. In the beginning, there will be shock and wonderment. There will be anger. “How could they allow this to happen?” I am talking about the economic woes that will come upon the West, and even to America. Who will survive these drastic changes? Not those with resources (for these will whittle away) but those who bond together in faith and who seek ways to help each other.
This will be a time of great sacrifice. The individualism of America, sparked by the decades of affluence, will be reversed. People will need each other to survive. Families will be reunited by the need to put together their incomes. New forms of helping others will emerge. Where the churches are vital and alive, the people will coalesce and the church will again become a focal point for the community. The teaching is clear. Where relationships of faith and love are already in place, people will be better able to respond and survive. That is my teaching. Begin now to form relationships. Come together. Gather now, even when you do not know why. Later, you will see how important are these steps.
For those interested, there is much more here: http://www.locutions.org
Thanks for your comment BobbyD. Just one correction maybe. I always wanted to avoided some discussion here, like discussion who is right or who is wrong when it comes to religion. It is simply pointless to discuss about topics like “believing or not believing in God” because it is personal thing and arguing about it usually does not have too much connection to survival.
On the other side faith had very important place in that time, and of course it will have again. We all live by some set of rules, call it whatever you want. We are all perfectly aware what is right or what is wrong. Everything else are names.
Without believing in something I would not be alive, or would turn in animal in that time. I have seen evil in people in form that most people never seen, also I have seen good too.
Simply each and everyone of us choose for himself. It is just my opinion.
I post this link to a little “survival story” .. of which there are many versions. I can see why Selco is reluctant to step into the “religion” minefield.. judging from some of the responses.
Many American survivalists put religion ( Christianity) first.. John Rawles being a classic example. I am from NZ and in general we don’t wear our religion on our sleves the way many Americans do. I think many Europeans are also less expressive of their Faith too.
In WW2 both sides were nominally Christian.. praying to the “same” God. Faith may give you strength.. they say there are no athiests in foxholes. But don’t neglect to dig a deep foxhole and keep your head down if you want to survive.
Touchy subject, you are brave to ‘go there’, not many do or want to.
My idea of religion I guess is a bit unorthodox. I don’t feel that one faith is better or worse than another – truth is truth. We fight and argue which one is ‘right’ – why ? Most religions ask of their followers be good parents or good children, to be kind to each other, and to be a good role model that others would want to be. Shouldn’t that be enough ? Why argue over details ?
Religion is supposed to heal and make you stronger inside. Because Life can be great – sometimes. Other times, it can really tear you up. Sometimes you deserve it – other times not. But the Bad Times come regardless and religion (I think) is a big help pulling you out of that darkness.
We will continue to argue about which religion is right, but before we do, we should remember that religions have many things in common as well. We aren’t as far apart as we think we are.
“I don’t feel that one faith is better or worse than another – truth is truth. We fight and argue which one is ‘right’ – why ? Most religions ask of their followers be good parents or good children, to be kind to each other, and to be a good role model that others would want to be. Shouldn’t that be enough ? Why argue over details ?”
Eugene (later in life, Fr. Seraphim) Rose, Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age, pp. 12-13:
“Absolute truth”: the phrase has, to a generation raised on skepticism and unaccustomed to serious thought, an antiquated ring. No one, surely–is the common idea–no one is naive enough to believe in “absolute truth” any more; all truth, to our enlightened age, is “relative.” The latter expression, let us note–“all truth is relative”–is the popular translation of Nietzsche’s phrase, “there is no (absolute) truth”; the one doctrine is the foundation of the Nihilism alike of the masses and of the elite.
“Relative truth” is primarily represented, for our age, by the knowledge of science, which begins in observation, proceeds by logic, and progresses in orderly fashion from the known to the unknown. It is always discursive, contingent, qualified, always expressed in “relation” to something else, never standing alone, never categorical, never “absolute.”
The unreflective scientific specialist sees no need for any other kind of knowledge; occupied with the demands of his specialty, he has, perhaps, neither time nor inclination for “abstract” questions that inquire, for example, into the basic presuppositions of that specialty. If he is pressed, or if his mind spontaneously turns to such questions, the most obvious explanation is usually sufficient to satisfy his curiosity: all truth is empirical, all truth is relative.
Either statement, of course, is a self-contradiction. The first statement is itself not empirical at all, but metaphysical; the second is itself an absolute statement. The question of absolute truth is raised first of all, for the critical observer, by such self-contradictions; and the first logical conclusionto which he must be led is this: if there is any truth at all, it cannot be merely “relative.” The first principles of modern science, as of any system of knowledge, are themselves unchangeable and absolute; if they were not there would be no knoeledge at all, not even the most “reflective” knowledge, for there would be no criteria by which to classify anything as knowledge or truth.
This axiom has a corollary: the absolute cannot be attained by means of the relative. That is to say, the first principles of any system of knowledge cannot be arrived at through the means of that knowledge itself, but must be given in advance; they are the object, not of scientific demonstration, but of faith.
Ibid, ibid, p. 31:
The Liberal may be interested in culture, in learning, in business, or merely in comfort; but in every one of his pursuits the dimension of the absolute is simply absent. He is unable, or unwilling, to think in terms of ends, of ultimate things. The thirst for absolute truth has vanished; it has been swallowed up in worldliness.
Ibid, ibid, p. 32:
A subtler “reeducation,” quite humane in its means but nonetheless Nihilist in its consequences, has been practiced for some time in the free world, and nowhere more persistently or effectively than in its intellectual center, the academic world. Here external coercion is replaced by internal persuasion; a deadly skepticism reigns, hidden behind the remains of a “Christian heritage” in which few believe, and even fewer with deep conviction. The profound responsibility the scholar once possessed, the communication of truth, has been reneged; and all the pretended “humility” that seeks to conceal this fact behind sospisticated chatter on “the limits of human knowledge,” is but another mask of the Nihilism the Liberal academician shares with the extremists of our day. Youth that-until it is “reeducated” in the academic environment–still thirsts for truth, is taught instead of truth the “history of ideas,” or its interest is diverted into “comparative” studies, and the all-pervading relativism and skepticism inculcated in these studies is sufficient to kill in almost all the natural thirst for truth.
The academic world–and these words are neither lightly nor easily spoken–has become today, in large part, a source of corruption. It is corrupting to hear or read the words of men who do not believe in truth. It is corrupting to receive, in place of truth, mere learning and scholarship which, if they are presented as ends in themselves, are no more than parodies of the truth they were meant to serve, no more than a facade behind which there is no substance. It is, tragically, corrupting even to be exposed to the primary virtue still left to the academic world, the integrity of the best of its representatives–if this integrity serves, not the truth, but skeptical scholarship, and so seduces men all the more effectively to the gospel of subjectivism and unbelief this scholarship conceals. It is corrupting, finally to live and work in an atmosphere totally permeated by a false conception of truth, wherein Christian Truth is seen as irrelevant to the central academic concerns, wherein even those who still believe this Truth can only sporadically make their voices heard above the skepticism promoted by the academic system. The evil, of course, lies primarily in the system itself, which is founded upon untruth, and only incidentally in the many professors whom this system permits and ecourages to preach it.
you know as well as I do you took a false an sissy PC attitude. Whenever there are multiple opinions there is going to be one opinion that is more correct than the other opinions. Same for religion. Which is more correct is not in my pay grade to determine. Obviously one is more correct than the others. Obviously someone in this world is qualified to determine which one. Who that someone is, is a matter of debate. We may never know.
Nkay – I’m just not going to waste my time arguing over whose God is better and who is going to Hell and who isn’t – Life is too short. Just live your Life according to your creed and let the others figure it out for themselves is all I’m saying.
I agree with you 100%.
“All Saints have a past, and all sinners have a future.” Thanks for sharing Selco (and God bless you). I always wondered about what role religion would play if we had a real SHTF. I know the veneer of civilization is very thin – I have experienced it myself in even the easiest of bad situations. If it ever comes down to it, I hope I can find the balance between “stay alive” and “do the right thing.” I know I would try my best to only do good when I could, and avoid evil when lives don’t depend on it. To say Karma’s a b*tch doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Faith in God has and will see me through a lot of hell. But no where in my God’s bible does it command me to place ANY faith in ANY person or people. “trust in your fellow man???” Never! “Trust in God.” yes!!
God will never kill me with betrayal. Hungry, jealous, resentful or wrongly-aligned people will!
Thank you, Selco, for your brave and honest comments.
Even to mention religion in an open forum opens up a real ‘can of worms.’
Those who have no experience of really extreme situations of social collapse may tell themselves flattering stories of how they hope they might behave, but the only test of beliefs and of oneself is Reality – that is what you are saying if I do not mistake you?
People who pride themselves on saying; ‘I will never murder, never steal, never rape, and would always try to stop it, I would die trying to do good ‘, should be more humble and circumspect. They just don’t seem to know life or themselves as human beings. They don’t seem to know others.
Of course there are other, secular, belief systems, which can act like religions: in the Spanish Civil War, the Anarchists had no problem with shooting unarmed people who belonged to the middle or noble classes, but they didn’t touch their property, and executed any of their own men who did steal……… but they did murder, a lot.
And we know what the secular belief systems of Communism and Nazism enabled people to do.
About demons: the great British poet Robert Graves was a young officer in the First World War; he was only 19, and it was a ‘clean’ war, of soldiers killing without hatred for the most part. But when he was a very old man and dying, he was haunted by what he had done: ‘I am a murderer, I have sinned’ he said to his family this tormented him. And he was not an evil man at all.
Thank you again, Selco. Above all, you have reminded us that there is a real consequence to everything we do, and it is awareness of that consequence that seems to me to give value to a human being as something more than an animal and higher than all the fanatics and criminals in the world (I know people in Spain who have committed ‘political’ murders, – and gone to jail for it – their lack of shame is what shocks me most about them.They lack shame because their fanatical beliefs tell them they were right.)
I ask the God forgive me for what I may have to do. May he protect us, and help us make the right choices when the SHTF. I am going to do what needs to be done. May my aim be true.
Thanks again, Selco, for going where angels fear to tread! 🙂 Religion is the third rail of most blogs that aren’t centered in it.
My religion is central to my life, to prepping, to everything. It would be central as well in any survival situation. For me there are worse things than dying; however, I also have a duty to preserve my own life because others’ lives depend on me. I know that would put me into moral questions that are difficult. I don’t pretend to know how I’d deal with those, under pressure, clock ticking, but to choose Life and keep fighting for myself and mine. God is merciful. It is we who are not.
“Pray as though everything depended on God and act as if everything depended on you.” — St. Augustine (354-430).
Wise men know their lives have always been in God’s hands, and yet take action rather than lying down in passivity, waiting for the dogs to come . . . the two thoughts are not in conflict. Rather, God’s providence frees me to act with abandon. The old silly argument of free will vs. determinism/predestination doesn’t work; the Catholic answer to that is yes. God is sovereign and we are free moral agents. We embrace both and act.
Thanks again, Selco, for daring to touch the third rail. You are a blessing to us, friend.
On the individual level, religion for the mind is like what medicine is for the body. However it also goes beyond the individual to the social level where it consolidates, draws and uses social and human capital.
As a devout Christian, I believe that God will guide me and direct me. My faith should keep me from doing anything too evil. I’m also not really afraid of death, I’ll go to be with Jesus. Its those I leave behind that I worry about.
Selco, thanks for sharing your story and the stories of those around you during that year in hell. The info you give is invaluable and you are a hero to me. May God bless you and protect you. May God make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May God give you peace.
Help yourself and God will help you with the rest.
Keep up the good work neighbor!
I didn’t read all the comments in here but I wanted to take some time to tell you what I know from the King James Bible since I believe it will be beneficial to all and then I will address one comment:
1. I know that we all sin and are sinners.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(Romans 3:23 )
2. I know that our sins have consequences but I also know God’s gift to us is eternal life and that Jesus Christ died for our sins:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
3. Eternal life is free gift to all who believe and not by self righteous works, believe the Gospel:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
This is the Gospel:
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
Jesus died for our sins, he was buried and he rose again the third day all according to the scriptures: this is the Gospel. Jesus is the Son of God, he had no human father but was conceived in the Virgin Mary by the Spirit of God/Holy Ghost. Moreover, he is God in human flesh because Jesus is the Word, let me show you:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1 John 5:7)
But if you don’t believe and you die, then you will not see life but wrath in fire.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Now to the person who commented by posting a letter about Mary speaking to the world, Mary doesn’t talk to anyone and Mary is NOT a mediator, there is only one mediator, let’s see what the Bible says about that:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(1 Timothy 2:5)
Jesus is the only mediator.
I have been a prepper for a long time and am part of a couple of groups. One thing I see are people who think to add a Bible to their preps, who haven’t ever opened it before. They think it will help them when the s.h.t.f., but let me tell you that its too late then to try to understand whats in it. You REALLY need to look into it NOW, when you can become a member of a good church and ask alot of the questions you’ll be asking then! If you wait till then to develope your faith, IT WILL TOO LATE! Faith takes time and work to develope into something useful, and something you can really hold on to…
Sorry, it’s never too late to open the Bible.