Consequences of killing in post collapse world few people think about

Some three years ago the wife and kid of my friend were driving in the car, and on some intersection they hit another car. It was very small accident, both cars were driving very slowly and they only scratched cars.

In other car there were 4 pretty drunk guys and they immediately jumped out of the car and started to curse the woman and kid, she locked the car and called her husband.

Guys were young and drunk, and most probably they did not mean anything too bad other to look very cool and dangerous, but one of them pulled knife in order to scare lady. It was in the evening and without too many folks on the street, and even few people who came by did not want to interfere.

One of them did call the police. Her husband came very fast, maybe in 10 minutes and found them yelling at the car and his wife, the guy with the knife was piercing tires.

My friend jumped out of the car and broke the jaw of the guy with knife with his boot, then beat other tree dudes in few minutes. They suffered broken ribs, head fracture, jaw fracture and ruptured spleen.

Bystanders said that he started to strangulate one of the guys when two policeman came, they separated him from the guy, but then he turned over and started to strangulate policeman.

Finally other policeman knocked him out with baton. When he regained consciousness he was in jail.

He got out of the whole problem thanks to witness of the bystanders, and he got mild penalty because of attacking police officers thanks to his psychiatrist.

He is 170cm and some 70kg guy, and you may ask everyone (before the event) about him and everyone is going to say that ”he is very nice and peaceful guy, someone who always avoids trouble, actually someone who is scared of violence, guy who trusts in the system and love between folks”

I was with him during the war. Our SHTF 20 years ago and I know different. He was (and still is) one of the most dangerous guys I ever know.

Point of the story is not to say that violence happens, you all know that, point is more like that you never judge folks by the look.

To be more precise, really dangerous guys do not look for the trouble, they more look how to avoid it because they know what trouble may bring. It is same with “psychos”. If you come across someone wearing funny clothes and acting crazy he is probably just playing. Real psychos try to be and look normal.

Back to violence. When you have great experience in using violence, you may say that you join kind of club of people, and that changes some things for you.

People do not like to be around folks who have killed other folks, no matter why they did it, it is experience that changes folks. Actually once you did it you see that you are capable to do it, and you know you are capable to do it again, and again. A big taboo is broken once you killed. This is scary for people around you.

Some of those things are bad, but also other are giving you some advantage over the common folks.

Yes, you may be sure that after taking some lives you are not gonna be same man, you are gonna be outside of that group of common people.

During SHTF it makes sense to be known as a guy who is not taking sh.t easily, but only to a certain point, after that point your „fame“ of being tough guy may attract other, maybe tougher guys who want to take you down only because that gives them more „fame“.

If level of violence rises around you, you want to still “blend in”. Do not stick out as weak and not as extra tough. Maybe a bit more tough than average but that is enough.

Using violence in order to survive and using violence because you like it are two different things, and I have seen people who are „discovered“ themselves in doing violence because they like the feeling of power that comes with it.

I know the man who enjoy to do it. He was the family man who started everything just like most of the us when SHTF. He did what he have to do in order to survive.

Over the time he started to enjoy everything. After some time even his family members start to feel not comfortable in his presence because there is this guy who now has new option to act. He can kill and take life, just like this. This is scary for most people.

Keep in mind people talk about what happened. Just to process it or make sense. So people will talk when you kill. Stories come back to your group. Some people get wrong impression of you because they do not understand situation, they do not understand the high after you took life.

The guy I was talking about was no drug dealer, or some criminal mind. He was normal family guy, he just found something weird and dark inside him when SHTF.

He died when he became too careless because he believed he is way to strong and too smart. 20 year old woman stabbed him during a trade. He was too confident. It came as surprise for man who was proud and famous for being a killer.

This can happen to everyone. This story like other experiences from my time in war I share in my survival course are important lessons that never become out of date.

What you have to understand is feeling of being in power to take other peoples lives can put some strange ideas in your head, and we all suffered with different amounts of that, but some guys forget that this is not what survival is about.

Today in our world most of the „tough“ guys are tough because other folks are saying so, they are living on that fame and other folks fear. Reputation is everything, so most of the people believe in it and do not want to question it.

When SHTF having the man in your group or family who is something like weird version of action hero is not advisable, I mean it is no contest in body count, and blind wish to do violence all the time usually will bring you trouble.

In todays „normal“ world, when I walk in the evening and I see some trouble in front of me, lets say I see some guys drinking and looking at me, I see possible trouble, you know what will I do? I will avoid it, I will go to the other side of the street.

Now you can call me coward I do not care, but thing is that I know if I get involved in fight I ll do some things without hesitation.

I am known for what I am capable, and I am remembering (too well) what I did years ago when I was faced with violence. I would not have safety switches (or something that would tell me „OK now it is enough“) so I like to avoid it.

If you carry gun and brain at same time, you do not look for trouble too.

One of the other things that my experience brought me is some weird ability to „recognize“ dangerous guys, and I know some folks can see it in me too.

I am not talking here about some weird powers, I am talking about look in the eyes that says something like „Oh I know how to hurt you very bad, I did that before. And I will do that again if I am forced too, and I ll do it very efficient“. Someone who has all possibilities including putting you in extreme pain or ending life looks at you different, interacts different.

War vets with close quater fighting experience from anywhere know perfectly good what I am talking here about. Convicts and others who lived in violent environment know too.

At the end of the day, using violence is very bad thing, it destroys you. It can also destroy relationships of people close to you because it changes you and changes how people see you.

You can work on yourself on many levels and fields for years, but still that does not change fact that you are simply different man from majority of folks around you.

Years after the collapse that I lived trough I may only think that I am like everyone around me, actually I am not, and in the split second I am ready to turn back into what I was in that time. People who have not been there think this is good option to have… Selco is prepared… yes, but I carry this also around when I go to the park to relax and see families play together. This dark side never leaves you.

If you have experienced or been involved in violence, please share in comments how this changed your life or life of people you know.

67 responses to “Consequences of killing in post collapse world few people think about”

  1. Igor948 says:

    Reputation does precede you. I have always remained calm and avoided physical confrontation as a rule. My friends growing up were always “scrappers”, and would occasionally brawl against each other. One day, someone really aggravated me, and I calmly confronted him. He backed down almost immediately. I asked, “This guy has several martial arts belts, why would he back down from me?” One of my friends answered, “Because you keep calm, and nobody has ever seen you fight. They fear what you are capable of.” I thought this was strange, but then I realized that sometimes a calm demeanor (even forced) can be more powerful than being a threatening bully.

    • Mclovin' says:

      aye,Reputation does precede you and so does mystery
      I have a couple of story’s like that one
      I too usually remain calm but one day….
      some guy was taunting everyone in my class (this is high school)
      and everyone hates him and then it goes to my turn. he makes fun of me for my odd mix of ethnicity and religion. so I stand up (though im a small-ish guy) and then he asks “what do you believe” and I reply “that you have too many teeth” and this guy backs down and I sit back down

      and a select few of my friends know that I know about wilderness survival and weapons handling (just thebasics but it is way more than what they know) and they often asked me “if there is a zombie invasion (slang for SHTF here) “you want to team up?” not that I would take there offer up, they think of me as some sort of moraless man.
      Reputation does precede you

    • Valentin says:

      A priest I know from Philadelphia who used to work as a trolley driver told me about a colleague who was threatened by a guy with a knife on the trolley and the guy simply said “your weeupon does not scare me” and the man with the knife was so weirded out that he backed off, but this is the same city where my friend had a briefcase snatched from him and when he asked for someone to stop the thief you could hear all sorts of clicking sounds from people pulling out their stilettos and a black guy pulling a gun from his boot saying “where is the mother***** I’ll shoot him”.

  2. Mike says:

    I was in the Balkans as part of SFOR and then went into the police force in two different countries afterwards.

    I do not enjoy violence, I want no part of it. But I found that with every episode of violence it became easier to become violent and my “safety catch” became very very light indeed. Beware of violence, it’s intoxicating and easy.

    I have now left the force and am a paramedic but I know that if I was threatened again, I would act and that knowledge is a little frightening.

    • John B. says:

      That calm demeanor was often shown in movies featuring Clint Eastwood. I know it’s Hollywood stuff but that demeanor still is very effective.

      I’m not a fighting man but I can be provoked to the point where I’ve had enough. Many years ago I worked in a welding factory. One man there seemed to have a problem with me, even though I never did anything to trouble him. He did anything he could to either aggravate or frighten me. Then one lunchtime we were in the cafeteria when he started on me, again. He said, “I’ll bet you’ve taken some pretty good beatings in your time.” I stood up and went to his end of the table, bent down close to his face and said very quietly, “No, I haven’t but how about you come outside with me, right now, and show me what you mean.” Then I stepped outside the door and waited. He didn’t come out, but he never bothered me again.

      • john says:

        Violence acceptance in America has dropped like a rock in the last 100 years. As recently as 40 years ago fist fighting was acceptable as a way to settle disputes between ordinary men. When I was in grade school in the early 1970s, there were multiple fist fights every single day. My great grandfather was in his last fist fight in the late 1960s at the age of about 70 years old over a parking space.

  3. PeakDoc says:

    I have recently been reading about the “sport” of eye-gouging in backwoods areas of Southern states like Virginia in the 1700s and early 1800s, and trying to get my head around what that level of brutality and violence meant for the people who lived in that society. Here’s a Wikipedia article about it:

    Wikipedia says that “gouging was common” and “victors were treated as local heroes” but with all due respect to Wikipedia, I think this must be incorrect. I prefer Selco’s version that “using violence is very bad thing, it destroys you. It can also destroy relationships of people close to you because it changes you and changes how people see you.” I would like to think that this level of violence in the early US was deplored by most people and only practiced by a tiny minority, and that this would be true of most societies.

  4. Rob says:

    I have spent 53 years avoiding violence as much as possible; maybe because I was at the receiving-end for so many years when I was a kid…either out-numbered, or home based violence.

    I became ultra proficient in avoidance through tactful departure, ignoring, and always carrying myself very subtly as a dangerous person. When I’ve had to use violence in adulthood, it has ONLY been used to proactively defend my wife and children. I go into violence-mode with anyone who poses any threat at any level. They usually end-up laying on their back and in no hurry to get up again.

    Otherwise, I’ve defended myself through psyching the other guy out, or just all around avoiding the conflict. I’m very happy with the results and the method. These days, with my fellow Americans all being on-edge and feeling explosive from life’s pressures, I’ve seen hundreds of occasions where its a good idea to not even make accidental eye-contact with people.

  5. Chris says:

    I had a buddy I lost touch with years ago, let’s call him “S.” He was in a street gang, and he once revealed to me that he had killed another guy with a knife. He was probably nervous at the time and needed to ‘vent’ about it, because he had an upcoming court date. I asked a few questions in curiosity, but didn’t press him for names or dates or anything. Well, he did not go to prison over it. The court date was an unrelated thing, but his nervousness was because he thought maybe they knew what he had done. He is now out of that life. No more drugs or gangs. But at the time he was part of a violent gang.

    Long story short, some months later, I had seen him, and he didn’t immediately recognize me, but I began asking about the court date. He had this look of pure shock on his face. I guess he did not remember telling anyone about the stabbing. When he realized it was me, he still looked shocked that I would still want to talk to him, knowing the kind of thing he did. I told him, knowing him for some time, I assume he had a good reason to kill, and that was enough for me.

    This is another indicator that someone needed to kill, rather than wanted, because he was not happy to tell me, or bragging. He needed to tell someone, but doing so was a big risk for him. In my experience, people who are really dangerous, as Selco said, do not ‘advertise’ it to the world, all the time. There is a time for revealing it, but you do not project that to others 24/7, or you will get into all kinds of trouble.

    Being a cold, hard killer will follow you around, even if there are no cops.

  6. Gumby says:

    Causing death and destruction are easy to learn. Preserving life and making peace are far more difficult and are a divine calling.

  7. Ross says:

    To rephrase an old adage, prepare for war, hope for peace.

  8. Richard von Dornier says:

    Very sincere and deep account on violence. Maybe one of your best posts ever. Causing harm for no reason is a waste of energy and lack of honor. Living in extremely violent Brazil and still abhorring violence, I unfortunately concluded that you do not just leave your enemy unconscious or wounded. He`ll eventually get back on his feet again, recover and hunt YOU down like an animal for revenge.

    • Selco says:

      Yes, violence will get more violence, and if you using it you really have to be ready to do everything.

    • Chance says:

      Sadly there are situations where that is the only “safe” course of action..
      When presented with a situation where you probably won’t get a second chance, make sure you won’t need one.

  9. Jesus says:

    When I was in grade school, I was ocassionally being picked on. Umntil one day, I decided to rise up. The next day I brought a knife with me which I bought from a friend. Eventually, I got caught and suspended. Lets go forward to high school year. It’s nearly the end of school and some of my friends still knoew me for that. What’s even shocking is that I have friends that never been there and they know about it.

    That’s why any person don’t talk about these things. Word tends to spread rather quickly. Also, when I seem to get angry; nobody dares to fight me because they know what I was trying to doback then. I was trying to use that knife I had on the people who threatened me.

    • iksnilol says:

      I know that too well. I did something similar (threatened some people who ganged up on me with a knife) and it still does follow me to a degree. I go to a another school now (finished the previous one, higher education and all).Some people know what I did, most don’t. I like it that way, people dont mess with me more than friendly teasing and I dont have to do “bad” things again.

  10. Dan says:

    I’ve always kept in mind to use fire to forge steel, not create more fires. It’s got me through the aftermath of some violent situations I had to respond to. On the other side is the fear in most people that they will not be able to meet violence with retalitory or defense overwhelming violence. It can get so bad they don’t react and end up a victim.

  11. Bill Stormfeather says:

    The first time I fired a gun in defense of myself, wasnt while I was in the military. It was in a home invasion. I can tell you right off, that everything literally slowed down SUPER SLO-MOTION. It was extremely disconcerting, I can hear myself yelling at the person to “dont do it man!” and everything sounded as if I was underwater. then as soon as the shots went off, everything switched gears into hyper-mode where everything just was moving a mile a minute. This was defending myself and my family, so I have no issues with it, nor do I bear any ill-effects that I know of to this day. Theres something to be said about defending yourself and your family, and to me, I was ok with the events and how it went down. Sure, there was a slight period of regret, and hands shaking for a few days afterwards, but I came to terms with it pretty quick, most people have no issues about defending their family or themselves with lethal or deadly force when it comes right down to it.

    • Dr. B says:

      Bill wrote, “most people have no issues about defending their family or themselves with lethal or deadly force”

      I think you meant “Bill didn’t have issues about defending their family or themselves with lethal or deadly force”

      The experience of the subjective does not necessarily translate into ‘everyone else.’ or even “most people”.

      • Wirecutter says:

        I don’t of anybody that doesn’t have issues about using deadly force to defend themselves or their family.

        • late2theParty says:

          Wirecutter, I have absolutely no compunctions about using deadly force to protect my family. If you are willing to threaten my family directly, you are no longer human nor do you deserve to live; your action just told me you have no value. I avoid trouble (hopefully as wisely as Selco), I try to be as secure in house and home to avoid trouble, and control my temper. {It flares when someone does something stupid to endanger others. Especially something selfish.} All this to reduce the chance/need for ‘violence of action.’

          I have no wish to ever harm any person, but, for me, my family comes first. Spending some time in a really bad situation made me much more vigilant than I used to be (drives the wife nuts – “Why are you watching those people?” “Just being sure. Something’s funny about them …” “You are just being paranoid.” “Maybe.” (but I still watch and guard till the danger appears to have passed.)) She has no experience dealing with evil people; she believes everyone is good, until they force her to think otherwise. Unless I know someone better, that is, if I don’t know them, then I assume that person is evil or crazy.

          I am certain if I ever have to hurt someone to protect my own that I will be both sad and angry. Sad that they forced me to do it, angry because they forced me to to do it.

  12. JS says:

    As a girl, I didn’t have to get into many physical confrontations growing up. The only time I’ve ever really hit someone in anger was when I was in the seventh grade. But it taught me that, sometimes, violence is the answer.

    I was going to get my bicycle after school when this bully and her two buddies decided to give me $#%^. They were dangling my bike key (which I’d dropped) in front of me, crowding me, and presenting the usual in-your-face taunts that bullies prefer.

    I asked for my bike key back, which of course only escalated things. They were like sharks circling in for the kill. Well, I’d had enough that day, and a “switch” abruptly flipped in my head. There was not thinking, no planning, no further discussion…I just pulled my hand back and slapped the lead bully square on her cheek as hard as I could. Left one hell of a red mark.

    She got this utterly shocked look on her face, threw the key on the ground, and scurried off. None of the three girls would make eye contact with me for the rest of the year, and I never had any further trouble from them. I picked up my bike key and rode home.

    I didn’t enjoy striking that girl, but it was the only viable “solution” to the situation. Bullies have to be smacked down, because it’s usually the only thing they’ll respect. The whole event was nothing more than a minor schoolyard “tussel”. But it showed me that a violence “switch” exists in my head, as it does in everyone’s, and that it could be triggered given the right conditions.

    If TSHTF I would never want or seek to harm/kill anyone. I would try my best to avoid situations that might force my hand. But I know that, if I absolutely had to, I wouldn’t hesitate to hurt or kill someone who was trying to bring violence upon me or my loved ones.

  13. Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Not all people avoid those who have killed. It’s not that big a deal to some. I don’t pass judgement that easily and have been a few places and seen/done a few things that needed doing. Don’t be too hung up on that. Some folks need killing. The sheeple fear the sheepdog because he fangs like the wolf and hair like the wolf ……..
    Also not having killed doesn’t exclude you from anything despite what some will tell you. During an event some will run to help you and some will just run. Those that showed up to help you shouldn’t be taken lightly because they didn’t get there in time to kill or need to.
    It isn’t to be taken lightly and in the days of “Call of Duty” gaming many act like stuff they are not. Having a coolio gun isn’t enough and buying milspec doesn’t make you anything. Wanting to challenge will only get you dead quicker.
    You talk about the quiet guy. It’s never what you see coming that gets you. It’s what you don’t. Real people don’t feel compelled to “act” dangerous all the time. Some do it these days to feed their wallet and some their egos and many both. It funny as shit to watch a grown man wearing a camo he never served in, using equipment he never actually used in a real environment, trying to train someone in something he has never really done.
    SHTF there is no need to hunt the fight. It will come soon enough. Prep your mind, your body, your skills and pray that you have the strength, the wisdom to get thru the OODA and take the correct course of action. Today you have the choice, tomorrow you may not

    • FloridaN8tive says:

      Great post

    • Valentin says:

      That is an interesting point especially with the rise of people in my generation who think that “why not” is a reason to do something for example the boys who murdered the Australian athlete in Arkansas because they were “bored”. It seems that a lot of people growing not being given reasons to do things end up coming up with their own excuses which sometimes make them hard-hearted.

  14. Buh says:

    I intuitively avoid violence, but I have experience with it and a hard time interacting normally with others. I cannot joke about certain things or taking joy in frivolous pasttimes. Often I will try my best to fit in, but everyone I work with sees a difference in me and they are intimidated by me. Many have attempted to get me fired based solely on my tendency to intimidate. A history of violence changes a person’s entire personality.

    • Jesus says:

      I agree. You see the world a different way when you dealt with violence. It becomes dark and grim. I am exactly like you. That’s what tends to piss me off. When you had a brief history of violence, like Selco said, you join a group of people that can’t seem to connect with other people. I can’t share jokes with my friends or family because it draws memories from when I was being bullied.

  15. John says:

    I used to work in prison security. I have seen people killed and been on the wrong end of hit lists from gang members who wanted me dead. I know how it feels to literally fight for your life with nothing but your bare hands…knowing that if you lose, you’ll lose your life.

    It’s a nice feeling to come out of something like that victorious, and it definitely beats the alternative. Some situations I survived out of sheer luck. Sometimes I literally blacked out, I guess because of adrenaline. I’d come to and everything was over. Couldn’t tell you what happened to this day without eyewitness testimony. I’d go to debriefing and couldn’t tell them what happened.

    But the daily violence was addictive to a very high degree. Every day when I went to work, I knew there would be violence and that I would take part in it somehow. I looked forward to the rush!

    Now, years later, I find myself bored because I cannot find anything that comes close to the adrenaline rush that violence brings. But I happily live such a life that I welcome the boredom. Years of analyzing the “what ifs” really bring a sobering reality to the situation. The honest truth is, there is always someone better, faster, bigger, better armed, etc.

    Enjoy peace while you can, but prepare for war.

    • gloria says:

      For what it’s worth, I as a retired female have the same feelings of craving those former adrenaline highs that I had when working in a very fast-paced publishing industry, when every little thing had to be perfect and get onto the huge six-color presses in time, with thousands of dollars on the line if there was an overlooked mistake. Eventually the pressure blew out a couple of my internal organs. Now I’m retired, but I still have to cope with the addiction the same way my friends do who are recovering alcoholics.

  16. chuck b says:

    “Only the Warrior can choose pacifism. All others are condemned to it.” – Samurai proverb.
    “God grant me a good sword, and no use for it.” – Polish proverb.
    Violence can be a good thing – a very good thing – if used to limit violence and destruction. Like the common expression that “the only thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.”
    Violence is neither good nor bad; how it is applied, however, is.
    I’ve experienced and seen more than I’d really like to have, but never had to kill anyone.

    Chuck B.

    • Selco says:

      Violence is necessary in some situations, it is simply like that. It make sense to be good in recognition of that situation and to be very efficient when you must be.

    • Valentin says:

      As the book of wisdom says “there is a time for war and a time for peace, a time for celebration and a time for sorrow”.

  17. Arlene says:

    When I was a teenager I had some girls bullying me – threatening me with violence if I went somewhere they were. It was all just words until one day the main bully tried to fight me like a boy complete with her friends making a circle around us so I had nowhere to go. I was just a skinny freckled kid but I sat there calmly as she circled me with her fists up like a boxer. She lunged at me, I stepped aside and tore the side of her face with my long fingernails. She lunged again and I ripped her arm. She continued to try to fight like a boy with no success – I was ripping her up and sidestepping her boxer lunges. She finally said that I had had enough and told they group “let’s go”. It was pretty funny really. They never bothered me again.

    Fast forward to adulthood, I thought a man was in the house (it was my new computer that announced the time, etc). I could have left the house but I grabbed my gun and “cleared the house” like I had been taught. So I know I will fight. It is actually very comforting.

  18. botfly says:

    When I was 23 I was struck by a car with two guys in it when they were driving recklessly. Somehow I saw it coming and didn’t get hurt. When they stopped I was pissed and yelled at them to watch what they were doing. Instead of leaving they both got out of their car a stood next to me in what is known as a tactical L. One directly in front of me and the other to my right. I had not been in very many fights at this point in my life and had the basic mentality to use verbal judo to avoid violence although I knew at the time that I was capable to fight and I was slightly trained in a gym at boxing. One of the guys started poking me in the chest and telling me he was some kind of special forces dude. I had know way of knowing if it was true and to tell the truth I was a bit scared. After a minute of him poking me in the chest a switch flipped in my mind, I told myself if he poked me one more time I was going to punch him in the face and that once I did that I knew I’d have to fight them both. I also beleived the were capable of hurting me badly. He poked me again and I let my fist fly, his teeth came out of his mouth, He went down and I sort of went black and beat the hell out of him even when he was on the ground. His friend punched me in the head but I was so full of adrenaline that I barely felt it. I turned on the second guy and punched him so hard he was knocked out. I began to beat them both senseless, I couldn’t make myself stop. Finally one of my friends pulled me off, the police showed up and I was detained and threatened with arrest. Both of these guys were really a mess, one of them punched me in front of the cops while I was standing back to him. The cops let me go and truthfully that incident and what I found myself capable of scared the hell out of me. Eventually, as I was military I ended up in combat, I found I could turn that switch on and off and it did seem to help me but I still marvel at how much violence I was capable of. I avoid that kind of violence at all cost now. Nobody really messes with me and people including my kids tell me I can be scary. They don’t even know the story and I am not particularly big or imposing. There are times that I wish I could take that day back as it did change me forever. You are absolutely correct in what you wrote here, it’s all true and I don’t look at situations the same now.thanks for the forum.

  19. timgray says:

    I hated confrontation and avoided it as much as possible until a pack of bullies started picking on me for months at a time, one day I had enough and snapped. Their Leader shoved me into a locker, so I got up can caved in another locker with his head and then ripped one of his ears off (they come off very easy) I actually kept calm even though the adrenaline was pumping, “Handed his ear to him saying, “you dropped this” as he stepped back reaching for the side of his head. They all freaked out badly calling me insane and ran off to the school office.

    After that I was never EVER touched by anyone in the school system. Even the biggest baddest guys were deathly afraid of me.

    Today I am the same, I will avoid trouble until I am backed into a corner, if I have no way out, I will do despicable, horrible, and nightmare inducing things to save myself or my family if I am forced to fight. People talk about “fair fighting” in life and death combat, there is nothing fair, there is only doing whatever it takes to survive.

  20. Stas says:

    I lived in a middle of SHYF-hell in Trainspotting-like setting and there were some really dangerous guys that had done time in jail for assault or murder, even and then there were various degrees of slicky slimeballs trying to rip-off or something, usually in a pretty obvious way because they were full of themselves. Instead of dealing with them I introduced them to those dangerous fellows and in private cautioned them to believe in anything those people pull off so they passed them on and the guys, full of themselves thought they were popular, until it dawned on them. Too late.
    One of them, after serving a lengthy prison term, is too afraid to live in this country, even.

  21. WOLF! says:

    Let me offer two quotes found in ‘MAKING THE DEVIL NERVOUS’, an unpublished semi-fiction-all(?)
    novel by R.R.R., a reclusive contemporary artist formally from Los Angeles.



  22. Mjr_Dzaster says:

    We live in societies…you know…communities…neighborhoods…Burroughs…villages…towns…cities…communes…and to live safely, and to be “protected”, there are “community” rules to which are applied laws in order to “keep the peace.” I didn’t grow up in a violent household…but I grew up in one with a lot of guns. My father had been a survival instructor in the U.S. Air Force during the Korean War. Even though he died at a very young age (39) in a freak accident, I had been lucky enough to learn quite a bit from him in those eight years before he died, both my older brother of three years and myself. I remember my father taking my brother and me out of school “public school” during the school year for a week here or two weeks there to take both my brother and me on camping trips (as my father called them for our sake?), and as a photojournalist, they were business trips into the wild parts of the lower Western Forty Eight States where he took pictures and gathered stories for his articles for various magazines, and newspapers. But for my brother and I…we didn’t know that while we were on these so-called “camping trips”…our dad was teaching us survival skills. He wasn’t teaching us how to kill people…these were survival skills for being out in nature. Where to find wild asparagus and wild cabbage and what lichens were edible and what parts of a pine or juniper tree you can eat and how to use the inner bark of the Aspen tree to alleviate headaches when prepared properly. But I also remember him telling my older brother and me…never, ever trust the government or any government for that matter. Interesting that he was teaching this to his two young boys. What an impression he made on me…because from the small amount of time that I knew this man, my father, he was right. Governments cannot be trusted…for the most part.

    When he died, of course it was a massive shock to my system…to my mind, to my spirit. I think I cried until I was nineteen years of age which was when I had visited his grave and just had to let it all out for a final time. He didn’t die violently…he died exactly the way he had told our mother that he had envisioned his death. That’s another story for another time of course. I’m writing here because I read the article above and think that finally, here is a place where I can share some of my skeletons to an extent.

    I’ve lived in Southern Mexico when I was eighteen years old. Talk about the Wild, Wild West…or the Extreme Southern Wild, Wild West. Most Americans…(that’s an oxymoron really as the Americas stretch all the way from the southern tip of Chile all the way to the top of the most northern part of Canada…so when we arrogantly call ourselves “Americans”, we are kidding ourselves…we’re hypocrites…but then, that’s just my opinion really) really have no idea what it’s like to live in a poor or developing country. I have lived in Southern Japan and how I ended up there is a story in and of itself. In Mexico, you can bet, I ran into various characters (if I may be so bold as to call them something as simple as characters) who definitely tended to live right on the cusp of survival mode. They don’t all have the luxuries that we have had here in El Norte. I ate dinner in the home of a family who’s walls were made of corrugated cardboard, nailed together with soda pop bottle tops to keep the cardboard from falling off in the heavy rains and who’s roof was thatch made from palm tree leaves.

    One of the Mexican Cartels had a farm where I lived on the Southern Coast of Mexico where they grew papaya, bananas, tobacco which was used to cover up the Cucaracha they were growing. To get to the “secret beach” my friend and I would cross their property…and as long as we stuck to the path, there shouldn’t be any problems. We were told that it was probably best not to cross their property, that we should take the long way around. But that was an extra thirty minutes…so we always crossed their property. One day, we were crossing the “farm” and up on the hill, we saw some guys sitting on the veranda (with their machine guns) and smoking and drinking. We looked up the hill at them and waved as we continued up the path towards the barbed wire fence…they waved back and smiled. Turns out (at that time anyway…1980) that the Local Cartel was not so much the problem, but there were still enough wild-eyed yahoos who were loco enough to keep you on your toes anyway.

    I almost ended up with a broken bottle in my face one night at the local discoteca because I wasn’t interested in dancing with a local fisherman’s cousin. She was young, but was missing quite a few of her pearly whites. That was enough for me thank you. But I angered this guy by insulting his cute, but toothless cousin and he wasn’t going to stand for it. Luckily for me, I was not a fighter (although I have gone berserk on a couple of occasions and have just completely lost it and pretty much blanked out, not knowing what I did, but DID stop some ne’er-do-wells in these past encounters…and I was not proud of my behavior…even though I had been provoked into it) I have always steered away from violent encounters as best I could and done quite well doing that either through avoidance or through calm, cool and collected verbal intercourse with potential antagonists. Meanwhile, seventeen kilometers north of where I was living on the Southwestern coast of Mexico, two American university professors and six of their American students were macheted to death and buried in shallow graves right off of the main coastal road. They had been there on an archaeological dig, probably had trespassed on Cartel land and were punished for it in the most extreme way. Again, this was the year 1980. The Mexican peso had just collapsed several weeks earlier, and Mexico was falling into chaos. If you were already a poor, peasant Mexican, then you were now far, far worse off than you were just a few weeks earlier. This is now a melting pot for “anything goes.” The two people I had traveled down into Mexico with (who were both good friends and who were at least twenty years my senior) decided that it was probably time to get out of Mexico especially after all the local foreign visitors who were living in this small coastal fishing village woke one morning with bright red hammer and sickles painted in spray paint on all of our palapas. Time to go!

    In Japan…well…my story involves the Southern Yakuza. I lived with the Yakuza in Southern Japan for three months and was friends with a guy who was the only son of the retired don’s favorite mistress (he had had seven mistresses) and my buddy’s mother was his father’s favorite lover…she died during his birth. He was ordered not to be a part of the family business…well, not directly anyway…right? I cannot divulge too much here, except to say that I definitely experienced some very crazy times while I lived there. This guy’s family controlled Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, Toyota City and the surrounding area…a LARGE area of Southern Japan. His family had/has thousands of soldiers at their disposal…literally. I loved my buddy like a brother and respected him a lot…but that doesn’t mean that that was the life for me…and his family was respectful and aware enough to keep most of it away from me…or vice versa. I had been given a device that looked similar to a beeper (you know, like what doctors used in the 80’s for emergency calls…well…a lot of people had them…right?) anyway, it was basically a police locator which was given to me which I could use to call my Yakuza buddies in case of an emergency. My friend told me at the time; “Don’t worry, I personally have over nine thousand soldiers at my beck and call…which means YOU have protection around every corner of this city…but…still…just be careful…you are Gaijin…even some of MY people don’t like Americans, because of the war…because of the carpet bombings of Tokyo, Yokohama and the atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But, I consider you my brother. You took care of things I needed done in the States and therefore, we are bonded for life…we ARE brothers.” I was of course blown away by that, but it didn’t change the fact that I was surrounded by potentially dangerous situations and dangerous people. I’ve seen it…I’ve lived it…and even now, I still have photos in my albums that prove it…that prove who my “friends” were in Japan. Probably not smart to keep them, but those are my memories, good and the bad, but they are my memories, I can’t burn them or throw them away, because I am that “normal” guy who ended up in abnormal circumstances.

    I haven’t had any contact with my buddy’s family and my buddy died about three years ago from health problems…no, really…they WERE just his poor health and not taking care of himself properly. But I haven’t been back to Japan since the late 1990’s. That was the last time I visited my old family there. I guess we all have stories to tell about violence or situations where we were either in or potentially going to be in something dangerous. I am one of the few white guys (Gaijin = evil person…or evil influence) that’s what we’re called by the Japanese. They’ll shake their heads and wave their arms and hands and insist that they don’t think that…but let me tell you…(and of course there are so many wonderful, decent and caring Japanese people as there of any people on this crazy, wonderful and dangerous planet)…they ARE thinking that. I know, I’ve been there, I’ve lived there, I’ve done business there…and I still LOVE Japan…just like I still LOVE Mexico…but then of course, I can say the same thing about my experiences in Thailand as well…I LOVE Thailand. So it doesn’t matter where you go…people are people, no matter what, no matter what language they speak, no matter what religions they believe in, no matter what politics are playing out at any given time and in whatever era it may be. Nothing changes at the base level of the human psyche, the human spirit and the human experience. I think that is why we are here on Mother Earth, to share in this experience like the ancient Chinese curse states: “May you live in interesting times.”

    I live in a huge metropolis, millions of people live their lives here. But I’ve seen how quickly chaos can sprout up literally what seems like overnight. I’ve seen this city burn…literally. So if you are not prepared to fight, if you are at least not prepared to flee with just the basic survival necessities, then you could lose your life…and you can place your family literally in grave danger. I’ve lived plenty of experiences and now, at age fifty one, I KNOW that I have to be prepared for any eventuality…just like the police are, just like the military is. It’s each and every one of our personal responsibilities to look after our families. If you can help a neighbor, fine…but stay on guard…be prepared. People you think are the nicest neighbors can turn on you instantly…because in reality, you don’t know them and they don’t know you…not really…right?

  23. Itzhotli Cihuatl says:

    Selco, you forget what women will do in SHTF situations as well. As you said in your post, that bad a$$ guy died when a woman stabbed him. I had to resort to violence when I was younger in order to survive the area I lived in. No one messed with me after that and I still walk with an aura about me that makes people think twice about messing with me, even though I work as a healer now. My daughters have grown up knowing that they should never start a fight but if one comes to them they finish it. One side effect of my being this way is men are intimidated by me, so I remain single. Better to be alone than in the wrong company anyhow.

  24. Jon L says:

    I have been in a total of 1 fight in my life. Back in 6th or 7th grade some fellow student got a hard-on for wanting to fight me for no reason of mine. I had upper-class man rooting for me and i didn’t even know why ! Why did this kid want to fight me ? Why did i have people rooting for me ? I had never been in a fight before. Well, after school and across the street in the soccer field, him and i met. We did the dance around one another thing. And then he pulled a fast one and said a cop car was coming down the street. And so i looked ! As i turned back he hit my mouth and i started bleeding. I immediately told him he won and went home. I knew then fighting hurt and i didn’t want any part of it. I have been in plenty of nervous conversations with other people that wanted to hurt me and i have always talked them down. Could i fight today ? Probably, but i would get my butt kicked, no doubt ! Violence is not always the only option to explore ! Today i am 44 and still only 1 fight under my belt.

    • Selco says:

      I agree that violence is not only option to explore, and when it comes to fight and SHTF everything is possible. It is important to be ready and open to all options.
      Only in real survival situation you will discover how capable you are, or how strong-weak you are.

  25. Rich says:

    Selco, Thanks for opening up these topics and bringing out these hard discussions. I know the memories of them must eat at you everyday, and getting them out and in the open, and helping in the way you do must be at some level cathartic and therapeutic.

    I’ve had my own confrontations in many areas of my life, many before my marriage, and the more dangerous ones after starting to raise my family. As a letter carrier for 10 years in southwest Birmingham in the 1990s, I saw near anarchy on the mean streets of a town called Bessemer (now listed on a few websites as one of the 16th most dangerous cities in the US).

    I had the normal postal run-ins with gangstas and their rottweilers and dobermans, and more than my fair share of pit bulls. I had guns pulled on me in attempted robberies and drive by’s, but never had to duck a shot, or go offensive. I had car wrecks occur feet away from me while standing on street corners that could have easily put me under ground.

    It wasn’t war, but it wasn’t safe, nearly every day. I came across bodies on porches, from drug deals gone bad. I was first on scene to fatal and near fatal car accidents, near where I stood as it happened. I paid attention to my entire 360 area of operations on my route, and had a photographic memory for incidents. Situational awareness in these crime ridden areas, right here in the good old USA, kept me on my toes, and while not exactly antsy…at least knowing deep in my soul, that these streets at some point in the future, could be the death of me…at any given second…rendered thoughts that let me to bug out with my family and I to rural settings just a few years later.

    The only two fights I was ever involved in was my brother at age 13, in our backyard, at my dad’s behest to deal with a sibling squabble, and it was one punch from me, and 10 from my little brother. I went for the stomach, and hit him in the gonads. He proceeded to beat me about the head and shoulders for a minute or two, before his pain took some fight his fighting spirit out. Wasn’t intentional, but I realized after my first punch, that “What the fuck am I fighting my BROTHER for? It was just not right…and I let him punch me until HE stopped.

    The second involved my oldest son, a lost soul at the time, who was delving into softer drugs for bit of rebellion in his early teen years. I did what my dad did to me (years before), and got in his face trying to egg him on to get him to REALLY discuss what the hell his problem was. Long story short, and with him being 8 inches taller than me, and 50 pounds heavier, he took the bait….and he pushed me hard, back across the kitchen/dining area, into our fridge, with enough force to knock some frying pans off the top and hit me in the head with extreme prejudice. It took me a moment to see a fight has started, and got back to my feet, and jumped toward him, hitting him in the side of the head with a round house…the only punch thrown. My wife and other two kids were right there and the screaming ensued. Cops were called, and we both went to visit the PD, coming home an hour later. He went to the hospital for Xrays, which showed no damage. The next day I had a bruise on my ass the size of a medium sized watermelon…and I don’t know what the hell I hit to cause that.

    Over those nearly 40 years, up until today, I’ve stepped into a lot of ongoing frays, usually of someone I know, and tried to bring tempers down several notches with rational thoughts and having them step back and breathe for a moment. Somehow, in all those years, I’ve only seen a few fistfights break out in my presence…and one was little bro in middle school who got his ass handed to him with a broken nose while I watched on one afternoon.

    So, years of experience on the fringe, in the danger zone, and refereeing.

    Like I said, I’ve seen death up close and personal, but have not dealt it or suffered it personally. These days, however, are different. Now I work full time in Corrections/LEO for a western state.

    I work with, direct, supervise and manage all day, every day, dozens of inmates at a minimum facility. I am not an officer, which means on one hand, I carry no protective gear, handcuffs, pepper spray, or anything else but my wits at all times, while on the other hand, I have the training and skills, to take down anyone that is attacking me, or anyone else, with my hands and body only…including some blocks that if used incorrectly, and without power control, could absolutely be lethal.

    Being a minimum facility, we have the entire spectrum of inmates: murderers, rapists, sex offenders, child molesters, blue and white collar crime, and even former cops, public servants, and the like. Every staff member, uniformed or otherwise, knows that THESE inmates are at the last facility they’re going to be at before they reenter society. All of our jobs is to keep the local community SAFE AND SECURE. The guys hitting the streets for the most part leave the town or county, including a lot that leave the state.

    Manned with a radio an and a personal protective alarm, I am around them, between them, working with them, teaching them, and oh yes, ROLE MODELING what citizens and non-felons need act like today. 800 sets of eyes, and 200 cameras watch me and everyone else on the facility…every day.

    Having been in this position for many years now, coupled with the 10 years on the bad streets of Alabama, I, too, like many of you, can read a man or woman’s eyes and gauge intent or potential threat. And, as I’ve just said, that includes men convicted (and of course capable again later ) of those same horrible disgusting crimes they came into prison for…murder…rape…child molestation….multiple DUI’s, and on and on.

    Death doesn’t touch all of us, until late in life for the lucky ones. Vets, lots of new immigrants from nations who have always seen to be at war, and lots of wannabee criminals that grew up with one parent and a Nintendo, create most of the bad things in all our lives these days. The value of human life by a majority of Americans is driving us down a proverbial road of IEDs, snipers, and pretty much all but mostly dead liberal zombies.

    Death is a part of the life cycle. Being aware of potential events that might touch us, taunt us, or barely miss us (that situational awareness thing) is a skill that can always be improved, every day, in some way.

    I’m not a fighter, but I can fight. As our (and most other) correctional facilities in the country have, there is a force list that tells us exactly what we can do with an individual who is causing problems. We can only use that force necessary to gain compliance of that individual, in that situation. In higher level facilities, the Medium and Max joints, the use of lethal force can and will be used, if any life is threatened. It’s rarely used, but policy and procedure, during these times of emergency, are there…because at some point in the past, it was needed, and history is going to repeat itself.

    Once you’ve crossed that line, even in defending yourself and/or your loved ones, you may have to kill, or at least end the immediate threat with a shot of any caliber. You have to know, both in your heart, and in your head psychologically and physiologically, what what can occur in those precious few seconds of action to save those lives and end that immediate threat. Guilt, anger, self questioning (after the fact) is as inevitable as the sun rising n the east everyday. Just remember this. You didn’t make the choice to take a life…you reacted to an immediate threat. The perp who has elected to receive for this game made the choice to cross that boundary. That door or window was locked to protect HIM. He get’s his just reward when HE has brought the aggression to your face.

    • Cpt Jera says:

      “Vets, lots of new immigrants from nations who have always seen to be at war, and lots of wannabee criminals that grew up with one parent and a Nintendo, create most of the bad things in all our lives these days.”

      I want to assume that by “Vets” that you meant Veterinarians. THIS Military VET, or perhaps one of millions like me, may likely be one who has your or a loved one’s back when they need it most, and would not hesitate to take a life to defend you and yours.

      Sir, please do not presume to know what is in the heart of military Vets unless you have worn the uniform or born the burden of war.

      Selco, thanks. Good post. Namaste, brother.

      • Phobos says:

        CPT Jera,

        Amen. Absolutely ridiculous comment by Rich and he clearly doesn’t have a clue. I’m a Ft Bragg guy and I hear the same sort of comments from the townies.

  26. Kaiga says:

    “To be more precise, really dangerous guys do not look for the trouble, they more look how to avoid it because they know what trouble may bring. It is same with “psychos”. If you come across someone wearing funny clothes and acting crazy he is probably just playing. Real psychos try to be and look normal.
    Back to violence. When you have great experience in using violence, you may say that you join kind of club of people, and that changes some things for you.”

    This kinda rings a bell for me, I don’t have much real fight experience, but I did study Tae Kwon Do for a few years, and been in a few schoolyard scrapes when i was younger. My observation is that the people who have experience or training in fights or Martial Arts have this kind of air around them, I met a guy in College who trained in Chinese Kung Fu and everyone could tell that he knew how to do violence, but the thing was he wasn’t really prone to it. I have taken to calling this air “The eye of the tiger” because the people who give me this feeling are always aware, and you can see the alertness in their eyes,and feel their intent.

    • Jesus says:

      That is true. My friends tend to know that when it comes to violence, I tend to get serious and not fool around. I do agree that a history of violence tends to change someone’s personality. I myself have been changed thanks to bullying during my grade school years. When you change, it’s no longer the same. You cant laugh at some jokes that your friends are laughing, you tend to be out of a group for whatever reason, shit that tends to deppress you because you are different from the people. I tried to do Tae kwon do, get with people that liked to fight, but still those friends didn’t go through what I did. I still stood out. That’s why I’ll be joining the Marines when I graduate. Ever since then, I don’t think I was meant to have a normal life.

  27. Bob D. says:

    I was in the Military for 20 years June 72-92 US Navy. Was involved with some combat situations during Vietnam.
    I was psychologically changed during my first 6 months in the military due to those combat situations. I had been
    a easy going kid when I had enlisted. After the above mentioned situations I became a very serious person. I didn’t look for trouble but it found me. I just wouldn’t take any shit from anybody and would not backdown from anybody challenging me or my authority while I was in the navy. During my first 2 years I was involved in 9 fights with others sailors that were bigger than me and would try to bully me around I was 17 when I joined so alot of others that were older thought they could push me around. I never backed down and became very serious about anybody that would start a fight with me. Because when they did start somthing I would hurt them as bad as i could to prevent them from challenging me again. Soon they learned to stay away from me and left me alone.
    I atribute this to PTSD (Red Out condition) From being in combat earlier and learned that fighting is not a game to be played.
    I had had a few article 15s on my record because of this but I was never the agressor.
    I later became Military Police to avoid being brought up on charges again but learned that I liked the violence of being in that profession.
    I was trained by the military to handle agressive people on a daily basis. When i retired from the Navy. I was at a loss for dealing with civilians that were either drunk or beligerant as I found I had little patience for dealing with them.
    And would find myself hurting them badly if provoked. Th lase incident put 3 of them in the hospital. my 2 cousins were there when this happened. And could not believe what had happened. 2 people with broken ribs and one with crushed treacia. We were jumped by around 13 asian kids at a place in Los Angelous Ca.I broke my left ankle and was standing on the stub with my foot at a right angle but kept on fighting. I don’t remember doing it and after was diagnosed with PTSD with (Red Out Conditions). So I try to avoid any sitiuations now which may result in violence.
    So alot of veterans are out there that have combat related experances and can do alot of damage to someone. and not mean to.
    Alot of Vets are afraid of what they can do.

  28. Joseph says:

    Never pull a weapon without using it and only fight to survive; it’s worked for me. VIGILANCE (Violence Is Going In Lethal And Never Considering Exit) is knowing the alternative has consequences.

    • chuck b says:

      “Never pull a weapon without using it and only fight to survive; it’s worked for me. VIGILANCE (Violence Is Going In Lethal And Never Considering Exit) is knowing the alternative has consequences.”
      Heard this, and variations, all my life.
      Nonsense. Sorry, but this is PURE Bull Crap.
      If you said “Never pull a weapon without the WILL to use it” I would agree with you. But as stated it implies that you are *obligated* to use your weapon/lethal force and that is neither legal NOR moral. One must seriously consider and truly understand WHAT they are saying when discussing Lethal Force. Do you *TRULY* want to waste a 12-yr-old for a “Get-Off-My-Lawn” moment?? We really need to be more *Realistic* here than “Tough.” Easier for me, I’m 59 and lived all over the world my whole early life (courtesy of the US Air Force) so I’ve had many life experiences most of you will thankfully never know, but regardless, please try to remain civilized as much as possible. After all, if you can’t *now* – how will you be when TS REALLY Hits TF?? Ultimately, isn’t that our goal – to retain civilization? Unless of course you plan to be one of the predators, in which case you are part of the root problem itself, and we’d better not cross paths. You have no idea what I am capable of if needed. OTOH, you likely don’t *really* know what YOU are truly capable of.
      Try to be civilized as much as the situation allows. You and everyone around you may live to tell the grandchildren about the “Troubles” if you play it right. Martyrdom is just a consolation prize for the losers.

      Chuck B.

      • chuck b says:

        Joseph – I just re-read my previous post; that was NOT intended as a personal attack on you – although it seems to come across that way; I was referring to that all-too-commonly-repeated nonsense passed on forever as “wisdom.” Running on little sleep for days, I should proof-read myself more carefully. I meant everything I said, but I honestly did NOT mean it against you personally. Apologies for not being more diligent and clear.

  29. Elijah B. says:

    When I was having law enforcement training my instructor said he was never frightened of the loudmouths who talked a big fight and were full of bluster; he pointed at me and said he was frightened of the quiet ones like me who, while being provoked, would look down and look up again at the antagonist and smile a little but not say anything and without warning would explode with extreme violence. I have had several friends say that I look fierce and even my mother said I could appear menacing just by standing still. I don’t know where I got all this from because inside I’m a pussycat. An angry pussycat.
    I don’t know what I would do if pushed too far as I’ve kept my cool in all situations and have been very quiet. I also find that avoiding troublesome people leads to a quieter life.

  30. john says:

    I am stunned by the people commenting here, who seem to be middle aged men, who report being in one or two fist fights their entire lives and then ramble on as if they are hardened veterans recounting the horrors of war. A fight with a relative is nothing. These are people who only want an “honorable” gentleman’s fist fight. You have not been in a fight until a complete stranger attacks you for no apparent reason.

  31. Southpaw says:

    The barking dog wants you to know it is there. It’s the quiet ones I fear. Same with people.

  32. Branislav Ivanović says:

    I have been in several near death situations in my life which I do not really want to go into too much here.
    The changing point in my life was when a really crazy guy, twice my body weight tried to take my eye out because he was loosing the fight and he was scared, long story short I nearly lost eyesight in one eye.

    After getting out of hospital and realizing I nearly lost an eye all I could think of is doing the same to him. When my eye got better I walked up to him calmly (because I did not want to loose my job) and I told him clearly that the next time we fight I will take both his eyes out, he started to tremble, he never bothered me again.

    The thought of loosing an eye never left me, and 10 years later after work in another job I stopped in a bar to have one beer, when the same guy who nearly blinded me in one eye comes up to me saying I nearly broke his jaw, and that’s why he did what he did, and bla, bla, bla. That is when I lost it and just saw red and offered him outside, the barmaid distracted me by giving me a beer to calm me down, the next second he vanished. Just as well I suppose because there is cameras all over the place and the last thing I needed is to be charged with aggravated assault.

    The same guy entered the bar a few months later and sincerely apologized, he bought me a beer and I bought him one, we shook hands and left it at that. He knew deep down I would never let it go and he had to make amends, what he did not know is that I knew for 10 years exactly where he lived. I made it clear to him that I new his address and I knew that we would eventually run into each-other, it was only a matter of time. He showed genuine remorse and I forgave him. I could see he was relieved. It did teach me a very important lesson which is when a person is scared they are capable of anything, from then on I do anything to win, if my life is in danger I will do what ever is necessary without a second thought in order to win the outcome.

  33. mountain says:

    Its true that when someone is getting noisy and acting aggressive, they are posturing and afraid. They don’t want to fight at the moment, so there is a possibility of avoiding violence. When people are serious about coming after you, they don’t usually advertise it, or come to you face to face. Hunters don’t jump out of the bushes and pound their chest to let the game know whats about to happen do they? They’d look big and scary, and chase everything away for a while, but they wouldn’t do much killing. Posturing doesn’t mean someone isn’t dangerous, but it can be considered fair warning. When your personal SHTF, fair warning could be a blessing, allowing avoidance or deescalation of a potentially deadly situation.

  34. Having experience or being involved in violence will surely change your life. It can be a good or a bad change. Some people take it as a lesson or precaution. Others look at it in a bad way. I haven’t been in a serious fight or something. But preparing for this kind scenarios will be really helpful not just in the possible fight you might encounter but in the future after being in a serious fight.

  35. Valentin says:

    I am just wondering Selco whether you still live in your home country or whether you’ve emigrated because my friends wife is Serbian and her family has similar experiences of the balkans like her grandma being a part of the mafia and people going to black market doctors because of ridiculous fees placed by the local government. Could you write an article about the things people resorted to when things such as medical treatment and protection became ridiculously expensive and beaurocratic (if that is what your country experienced)?

  36. I had many violent encounters when I was younger. I spent my developing years in urban public schools and learned the vicious nature of man when there are no restrictions. The psychos were about to hurt any student without reprisal from the teachers, so I often saw people’s true colors.

  37. KOS says:

    my first experience with violence occurred when I was in grade one, a bully on my school bus stole my hat on a daily basis… until I asked my parents what to do, I was told to bop him in the nose. problem solved… and a solid nod from the bus driver was given.

    my second experience id lost my temper, and attacked a kid for saying something I cannot recal, but I managed to stop myself, and he was un injured, but very shaken up. im not sure who was the bad guy there, maybe me. but I was very young.

    after that, one fight in grade six with a kid who tripped me in the hallways, he kicked my ass, pounded me on the back of my skull after I ended up on my knees, we where both suspended. we became friends after, for a short time.

    after that, a kid attacked my little brother over some dis agreement on the way to school, when my brother went to the ground and the other kid started laying boots into him, I picked the skinny little bastard up and threw him into the street… fortunetly there was no traffic, he never bothered me or my brother again…

    the next time, a couple of guys kicked my little brother on the bus, then looked at me expecting me to jump in… I knew they where just trying to provoke me into fighting… I told my little brother to get up, and lets go… my mother and her sisters scolded me for not defending him… they did not understand that I made the right call… because they are idiots.

    after that, a kid from the same group gave me a shove after school, and began insulting me… I know I should have just let it be, now that I am older… but I was a kid, not even a teen… I swept his legs out from under him, and put his face into the grass… no serious injurys… I didn’t want to hurt him… I wanted him to leave me alone… he did… I found out many years later that he had killed himself by driving his car into a giant hole in the road… it was determined to be suicide… I felt sorry for him, and hoped that what I did, didn’t have anything to do with it… I still remember his first and last name…

    I never had a problem in junior high or high school because after those incidents in elementary, I ended up going to the same schools as all the kids who went to that school.

    all of those incidents, aside from the kid in grade one, id never even thrown a punch.

    enter adulthood… walking through the streets as a depressed teenager I found myself surrounded by six native Americans who where either drunk, or high on drugs… the female of the group punched me in the head, one tried to grab my arms from behind… but I was quicker… and I decided to run for it… they followed me for four blocks… I had to hide in someones yard behind their fence.

    2 weeks later, the same female spotted me, and managed to punch me in the face. I just reacted… I didn’t hit her, I just reached out with my hand to the center of her chest, and she fell over on the ice. her friend with her tried to get in my face about it… my friend… a black belt in karate, stepped in, and let that guy know I had a right to defend myself… we walked away… but I was always looking over my shoulder after that one…

    at the time, I was associating myself with a lot of street kids, trying to understand why they where their, people kept telling me that they wanted to be homeless etc… I found that to be a lie… 13-14 year olds are largely on the street because they have abusive parents… those kids lived in constant fear of being beaten as they slept in school fields… they carried macheties. and axes, knifes and sticks… never guns. I tried to get some off the street and into state help… but most end up the willing victims of meth lords… or worse… one girl I knew, had been on the street so long, and from so young an age, that her feet had stunted… because she had never had a bigger pair of shoes… poverty is the worst form of violence…

    I have met people that make my hair stand on end, people that make me go into a state of clarity and focus…. we look at each other, and we know, sometimes they smile in what I can only describe as an arrogant way, like they have confidence in what they are capable of…

    id been in enough situations by the time I became an adult to know that the police don’t usually show up fast enough to save your ass… ive never been arrested, and hopefully never will, because I avoid conflict at all cost…

    once my group of high school friends was being persued by a group of native americans … one of them separated off and approached us… I fell back and approached him… we had a conversation, I told him I had lots of native family, I know what its like to grow up in this city. he then went back, one of his group shouted lets get them white fucks. but the guy I talked to convinced them not to.

    one time on a long walk in a small town in my late twenties I ran into a guy and his wife behind a bar… he had just punched his wife in the nose, she was bleeding… long story short, I got in his face about it, we fought right in the middle of the street… a cop car rolled right past us… ignoring us… that guy actually threw me over a fence after he gave up punching me in the face… I let him, and told him he hit like a girl. no marks no bruises… he did hit like a girl.

    ive since taken it upon myself to learn to defend myself better… the incident that really got me to re evaluate my no curb stomp policy occurred in a bar, where I like to play pool. back in my weight lifting phase. I spotted a guy who was forcing his young girl friend into a corner booth, squeezing her wrists and she was crying, I pulled him aside and tried to calm the situation down… his friends, the five of them… tried to pull him aside (I was alone that evening practicing), because he wasn’t having any piece of the peace I was offering, he was out of his mind… they said, look at the size of this guy… what are you doing… he kept coming at me anyway… eventually the girl went outside, so did the guy… I had made her friends call her parents, which where on the way, just stalling for time… we went toe to toe, outside in front of the big windows, for all to see, but absolutely no one was looking at us, they all had their heads down, pretending not to have noticed the heated words etc… that’s when the little bastard lunged at me with a left hook, but his girl got in the way, just at the perfect moment, and I couldn’t stop it, he smoked me in the jaw… I could feel the bits of tooth in my mouth, nothing serious tho… until a year later when the half of it came out… I walked around with that tooth like that for a year before it got infected, believe me that was pain… so bad I was drooling, gave up and finally went to see a doc. who gave me a funny look… the girls father showed up after, and she went home, I sat down with the boyfriends friends, and had a drink with them… but the boyfriend still wanted to fight… made several feints of punching me, but nothing ever happened…

    anyway, I decided after that, that I was not going to take any more chances… all one of these apes has to do is push me, and I hit the ground and become a vegetable… no thank you…

    my first rule of thumb with any violence, is avoid it… the cost is to high… your freedom, your tooth, your life. your legs.. youre soul.. you can lose a lot.

    my second rule with violence is that one on one is a fight… 2 or more on one is combat… id rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

    ive learned some basic self defense… but nothing fancy… those kinds of dance lessons don’t interest me… maybe hundreds of years ago being a martial arts master made sense… but these days, being a word warrior makes more sense… people are crazy… and they are usually armed and crazy…

    I don’t go to bars any more, people just want to fight and fuck, and im not interested in the type of primitive woman who seeks a man like that anyway… so I have zero issues about swallowing that man pride, and walking away… but id never ever turn my back on someone… and if per chance I ever get invited to go out drinking with my friends… I pick the table… one close to a door… one with some kind of reflective mirror or picture so I can see behind me if I have the back to the crowd…

    awareness is everything. im not thirty yet, but I understand something that in my youth I did not… if you find yourself in a physical fight… you’ve missed, or messed up your opportunity to avoid it, and its easy to avoid… as simple as crossing a street… as simple as recognizing the loud mouth in your face doesn’t understand that you could step on his foot and give him a shove and he will never walk again. the loudmouth that doesn’t understand that it only takes 10 pounds per square inch to crush a wind pipe, which is why he has his chin up… instead of tucked in…

    I avoid loud mouths… and I respect police officers when I encounter them… even the ones who are having bad days… because I understand what its like to have to deal with asshole people all the time… and because I don’t want my skull caved in…

    all the confrontations ive ever been in… ive never sent someone to the hospital… ever… and ive never been to one because of situations like that either… but I do understand how easy it is to end up there… or in prison… I remember reading a story in a self defense book about a guy who was stabbed by a pair of brothers in prison, 170 times… and he lived… even tho he was bleeding out on the floor for an hour before the medics even arrived. then you hear other storys about how two guys are having words, one guy pushes the other and he ends up a vegetable…

    everything selco said is pretty much true of violence, and violent people… physical violence anyway… don’t even get me started on psychological violence… women are masters of that art… and words can often do way more damage than fists or bullets… it is the double edged sword of free speech…

    I will be the first to admit that I have anger issues. they run in my family, but where the rest of the family has the short fuse, and the yelling and slapping, I have the long fuse, it takes a lot to get my blood boiling… but when it happens, im told that the whites of my eyes turn bloodshot red, and everyone in the room can feel it. I make myself walk away, leave the house or whatever… and it takes me days to cool off, but that’s what I have to do… its the same feeling I get when I saw the t.v. program to catch a predator… where those sick bastards go for kids… I am pro death penalty on that issue… but that’s the kind of anger or RAGE that could lead down a dark path… I know it so I avoid it… ill admit that ive been that level of mad many times… and what amazes me about that RAGE is how easy it is to put your fist through a wall or door… even by accident, not intending to punch something, just dramatically flailing your arms while argueing your point and there is a brand new hole, and its that kind of easiness… that keeps my rage in check. that worry of actually injuring someone that makes me walk away… take a deep breath… count to ten… have a shot of rum to make me dum, whatever…

    so there are some of my experiences with violence and fighting… none of which I am proud of, none of which I share or brag about… I know people know, I know they talk, and that’s enough for me… I don’t go looking for trouble, but it often finds me…

    take care all… I think 2014 is the year… id never have dreamed we would have come so close to another great war, as we did last year between the big three… and I cannot believe the amount of debt there is… lets hope cooler heads prevail.

  38. Steve says:

    Not only do many Americans have strange ideas about “gentleman’s” fights but I had been jumped by 5 guys after using an ATM machine while unarmed, and they complained to the cops that I fought dirty. A 5 on 1 attack with a sucker punch, and the thing that shocked me about it was they claimed I fought dirty. This happened when I was in the military, and sadly the 5 that jumped me were from a rival combat arms battalion but I was a medic..

    • Selco says:

      Too much movies influence maybe. In real fight you do lot of things that does not have anything with that Hollywood picture in order to survive.And it is good thing.

  39. CantDance says:

    If you carry a gun, it’s not safe to argue in a bar.

    Carrying this daemon can make relaxing and “getting comfortable” inadvisable.
    Even surrendering to sex can be nearly impossible if not completely driven from the other end.

  40. Dutch-viking says:

    i am a relaxed and easy kind a guy ,i always try to avoid trouble and walk away if i can ,
    i am not very big 1,72 meters and 70 kilograms heavy , i train aikido and nin jutsu ,the next story goes back 10 + years i was sitting in my local pub where i always go people all know me ,playing cards rolling dice , trowing darts and one night there comes this stranger inside the bar ,it was crowded inside and i didnt see him at first ,
    butt immediately i felt the atmosphere change some people paid there bill and left …..the guy went sit buy the gambling machine and all seems okay for that moment….after a couple more drinks i went into the toilet and when i went back out he blocked the pathway and looked at me saying i was looking for you a very long time and here you are …..(i never saw this guy before in my life ) i was feeling there is trouble on its way….so i first tried it with a joke by saying ….hey you found me you wanna date me ? have a drink….!!!
    in a split second he wacked his beer bottle and tried stabbing me in the face with it…..i grabbed his wrist and turning the bottle towards his neck….and everything seemed peaceful around me the sounds changed from normal to a hollow sound i became all hot inside ….and next thing i remember is the bar lady begging me not to cut his neck and asking the guy to leave if i would let him go…..the guy turned all white faced and sweating bullets and when i let him go he walked outside and vomited…..i never saw this guy again …..
    i once returned to my once happy place butt people treated me strange and nervous ….
    sinds than i never went back….

    i now live in another place 200 km away and people dont know me here , i found a new happy place ….
    raising my family 🙂

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